Palumbo Wealth Management Is Shifting Its Focus to Business Owners Preparing to Exit

Introduction: Phil Palumbo’s Career and Firm

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)

Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories Podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome adversity. As you listen today, let one idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Codispoti, and today's guest has been managing money for some of the wealthiest families in New York for 25 years. He spent 20 years inside three of the biggest names on Wall Street: Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, and UBS.

Before leaving to start his own firm in 2020. In six years, that firm grew from scratch into a practice managing more than $600 million for founders, business owners, and executives. Philip G. Palumbo is the founder, CEO, and Chief Investment Officer of Palumbo Wealth Management, a boutique wealth management firm based in Great Neck, New York. He is a certified financial planner and certified exit planning advisor.

Registered to practice in sixteen states. Phil is also the author of Make Work Optional and a regular contributor to CNBC and Bloomberg, and hosts his own podcast, the Palumbo Podcast. But before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is brought to you by my company, AddBack Benefits Agency, and you'll want to hear this because it's hurting almost every business owner See, health insurance costs go up every single year, and businesses are furious about it. They're paying more.

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Phil Palumbo (02:24)

Thanks for your time, Anthony.

Why Phil Left Wall Street’s Major Firms

Anthony Codispoti (02:27)

So, Phil, you spent 20 years at the big three, right? We talked about them in the intro: Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, UBS. This was before you left in 2020 to start your own firm. And I'm curious, as you left each of these big firms to go on to the next stop, what was the driving reason behind?

Phil Palumbo (02:48)

It were a couple of things, right? Number one, it was I always felt being an advisor at some of these firms, you were treated like sheep. In other words, these executives at these major firms, they're really pushing product down to the financial advisors so they could increase increase profitability 'cause at the end of the day, they're publicly traded companies and what do publicly traded companies need to do? Apease shareholders. Right. So so I've always sort of felt that.

And that bothered me because it wasn't really a focus on the client, it was really a focus on the firm and the profitability of the firm. So that's really the the first thing. And the second thing is I felt they were the research was conflicted because they have investment banking business that they would like to get or are currently working with today. So for example, if I wanted to invest in Uber, which is a company that I currently bought within my core portfolio just about, I don't know, four or five weeks ago approximately.

And so if I was at a major firm and and these major firms wanted to to engage in investment banking business with a corporate with a publicly traded company, they may not put a sell rating on the research because they want the business. So that's conflicting. So my preference is to work with independent research firms where they don't have that investment banking conflict. So so th that just kind of eroded my confidence in in a lot of these firms in terms of

as as related to actually investing. And then the third piece is, you know, when they made certain calls on investing, you know, they wouldn't make high conviction calls. They would just say, hey, move one percent here to one percent there. And I'm just like, if you guys really believe that you should reallocate your portfolio based on what you're thinking, then why wouldn't you go bigger than that, right? Or you know, what's one percent gonna do to portfolio? So so it's a lot of the bureaucracy, corporate bureaucracy that really bothered me the most.

Anthony Codispoti (04:31)

Okay, so those are some of the reasons why you decided to leave and start your own firm. I'm curious as you went from one firm to another before going out on your own, is it a situation where you can take clients with you? Or are you starting over from scratch each time?

Phil Palumbo (04:47)

Yes. No, no. So you you ideally bring your clients along with you, which fortunately I did. I was always above ninety percent in trend in terms of transferring my clients with me, whatever firm that I went to, including when I went independent as well. So that's typically the way that would work.

Anthony Codispoti (05:03)

And where you were at these big firms, what were some of the uncommon things that you were doing that allowed you to build up a really good book of business?

Phil Palumbo (05:11)

Yeah, was first being honest, number one, right? And number two, I've always ran a a pretty simple fee-based financial planning practice where if you paid me a fee, I would implement my strategies that I normally do for all of my clients. And there would be no conflicts. In other words, I wouldn't get paid commissions. It would stay pretty much away from that type of business. And and for that, you know, over twenty-five years, twenty-six years actually now of being in this business.

I never had one client complaint because I've always done the right thing by the client, which is always important to me. And so it was fee-based financial planning and that type of methodology really allowed me to serve my clients the way I wanted to serve them.

Anthony Codispoti (05:53)

Never had a single client complaint.

Phil Palumbo (05:55)

Never had a single client complaint in twenty-six years. And you can look that up on Finner's website and you could see disclosures with a lot of advisory firms and other advisors. But for me, thank God knock on wood, I never I never had a client complaint. a lot of it is because I've always done right by the clients. I've always kept them really well balanced, I never really concentrated, took major bets with their money, always applied financial planning to their life and helped them with all aspects of their of their finances, not just investing their money in stocks and bonds. So

with that you you build trust and I've always had very strong communication and those are the things that people want.

Going Independent Just Before COVID

Anthony Codispoti (06:26)

So you you decide to go out on your own and you explained why, right? They're this conflict of interest, right? The investment bank that they want to get people's money into the the products that they're investing in. You prefer to take a more independent approach. You you hire these independent research firms, they get you the research and you put the clients in in the right products. but you do this in 2020. This is a year of people will remember the COVID, lots of instability.

What w at what point in the year did you leave? Was it pre COVID? Was it post-COVID? Was it because of COVID? How did this unfold?

Phil Palumbo (07:02)

It was pre COVID. I started to read about it. at this point I had no choice 'cause I was I lined in the sand, So but obviously it wasn't it didn't really get bad until the middle of February and where everybody started to understand that this is going to be problematic. But it was way too late at this point. I was at my desk and obviously when you when I left on January seventeenth of twenty twenty, the first thing you do is obviously resign and then you go to my new office and I start calling clients.

To just share with them here's what I did. I left and did everything via protocol that I'm supposed to do. And then and then I remember as time started to go on, I'm like, my goodness, this is really a problem, COVID. I was just nervous clients were gonna say something like, Well, you know, with everything going on, maybe I'll just stay put at UVS. So I never forget I had like these chest pains. I'm like, my like I never really experienced that before. So obviously I was you know super nervous.

But fortunately and thank goodness, it actually was the opposite where clients were anxious to get their money to me because of the changes in the markets and they knew I understood their situation and I was overseeing their portfolio. So they wanted my hands-on at ASAP. So it actually sped up the process and accelerated the transfer then versus the opposite, which was really phenomenal.

Anthony Codispoti (08:15)

'Cause as I remember and refresh my memory here, when COVID first hit, the bottom fell out of the market. things just crashed in

Phil Palumbo (08:21)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (08:23)

a way that we haven't seen in a while. But they came back pretty strong pretty quickly. Remind me of what that timeline is if you rem

Phil Palumbo (08:30)

Yeah, so really the end of February. My birthday's February eighteenth, so I remember this very clearly. So it's at the end of February is when markets really cratered until really the middle of March and all of a sudden we rallied big, right? And we rallied big because of the stimulus that was going to be put into the economy, which somewhere north of like seven trillion. So anytime you have big stimulus that gets entered into an economy, you know, you things will change really rapidly because you'll see it in the GDP numbers, which we did.

And then the whole PPP program, which was absolutely a phenomenal idea, that really kept people in their place, people were receiving paychecks. And then, like I said, the economies then started to move upward again after some really challenging unemployment numbers that we saw. I think it was somewhere like around north of fifteen percent for a short period of time. and then things slowly, slowly or or actually even rapidly, came back, right? So that was

pretty much how everything unfolded, as it related to the economy and markets. It was pretty s it snapped back really quickly.

Anthony Codispoti (09:29)

And so the instability around COVID, counterintuitively, but it ended up helping that transition for you, right? Folks

Phil Palumbo (09:36)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (09:36)

are like, no, no, no. Bill, I know you, I trust you, my situation, I I gotta stay with you through all this uncertainty.

Phil Palumbo (09:42)

Right. Versus, as soon as I left UBS, UBS handed my accounts and clients over to other advisors within the actual branch itself. So for my clients, they don't know these other advisors. They don't know the quality if they're great. You know, it's and it's not like clients could leave and go in their car and meet with them because of COVID, right? So so really it was a situation where clients really felt, you know, concerned leaving the money, you know, where it was prior. So that's why it accelerated everything, which was which was terrific. And it worked out great for the clients too. So it was a win-win for everybody.

Growing the Firm Through Referrals

Anthony Codispoti (10:11)

So your firm is on good footing right from the get-go. But I'm wondering what business development looked like during those early months during COVID. You know, you weren't probably able to do a lot of the things that you had been doing before.

Phil Palumbo (10:24)

Yeah, it's it it's I always say for about a year from a business development standpoint, w there wasn't really much to do because of COVID, right? So it was more just like s staying alive and and really focusing on stabling the b stabilizing the business and and obviously we're concerned about markets and the economy and so you're overseeing all that. So business development for right now was in the back seat, right? So it was on the back burner rather. And so

So for me, it was more like word of mouth and referrals as my business normally grows, but doing some other active things like I did a lot of teaching and events in my, my prior years or prior to COVID, I didn't do any of that for a couple of years because of COVID. So it's but still, I mean, I've never grown more being independent than when I was prior. So since I launched, you know, with 130 million, my assets are actually over 700 million now. So it's not 600. So we've you know, I've grown rapidly.

in terms of assets under management ever since I launched. And it happened really quickly. And I just think it was a function of clients said, hey, if this guy can leave UBS and go on his own, he must really know what he's talking about. And so for new prospective clients, that's how my business really grew a lot.

Anthony Codispoti (11:31)

And is this mostly word of mouth, or you have other

Phil Palumbo (11:34)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (11:35)

distribution that like brings clients to you? How how do you grow?

Phil Palumbo (11:38)

Yeah, most of

most or all of the growth really is referrals and word of mouth, my network and send of influences that I work with. That's what really grew the business.

Anthony Codispoti (11:47)

That last part was set of influencers. center of influence.

Phil Palumbo (11:49)

center of influences like attorneys I work

with, yep, MA attorneys, investment bankers, estate and trust attorneys, accountants, that's all part of it together. So it's all warm type stuff that you know help me get these prospective clients become clients.

Anthony Codispoti (12:02)

So you'd been in the industry for

a long time, right? We twenty plus years before you decided how long?

Phil Palumbo (12:06)

Twenty six years. Yeah. This is my twenty sixth year.

Anthony Codispoti (12:10)

Twenty six years. So you'd been in the industry about twenty years before you decided to go out on your own.

Phil Palumbo (12:14)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (12:15)

The idea I'm sure was percolating for a while. What

Phil Palumbo (12:19)

The idea percolated

my first month in the business at Merrill Lynch, literally.

Anthony Codispoti (12:24)

Why do you think it took you so long to go out on your own?

Phil Palumbo (12:27)

Because, you're concerned you need the brand name behind you. At the time I was twenty-two years old, right? So totally wet behind the ears in terms of the business. So the you know, which I think is probably was the right move. And, you know, 20 years at the major firms, you know, built my business. And then, you know, once I built a really great business and I felt really sanguine about my clients in terms of trusting me and and working with them, imagining their money, I felt really comfortable that the transition to independence was first the right thing for the client.

in every aspect and and so that's why I made the move after that period of time. I probably could have left after ten years to be candid and and be in a better place than I am today, but ev everything worked out incredibly well.

Anthony Codispoti (13:06)

It's worked out really well. I'm wondering,

do you think you lacked the confidence to do it ten years prior or

Phil Palumbo (13:11)

No, it definitely

was not that. I think it was really a function of having the proper capital to go off on your own 'cause there's a cost in transitioning to independence, such as building out an office and technology and a lot of various expenses that that came about with it. And I think, you know, from a family perspective, you know, we were just starting the family and I just think it would have been a lot if I it I'm sure I could have done it, but I think the way it all worked out was absolutely perfect. So

Anthony Codispoti (13:37)

I know for some folks there's a bad work experience that's the trigger for okay, now I finally gotta go do this on my own. But it doesn't sound like that was the case for you. It was just the timing, it's finally right.

Phil Palumbo (13:47)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (13:48)

I've got a good book of business, the the the family's in a good place, this is the time to do.

Phil Palumbo (13:53)

Yes, but plus also if you if you paid attention to a lot of research, a lot of people were starting to move out of the warehouses in the independence, which is something like I told you about before, I felt early on in my career is the right move for the client and right move for the advisor in every aspect. So I was reading more and more about this and I'm like, my goodness, I was right, because look what's happening. And then obviously today, if you look at the numbers, it's even str stronger. the move to independence. some really large

private managers at some of these major firms are going independent or have gone independent. So it was definitely the right move or you wouldn't see this big huge transition you're seeing today.

Anthony Codispoti (14:29)

Do you think this

is the beginning of the end, the unfolding of the the big wirehouses?

Phil Palumbo (14:34)

No, because the what the reason why the wirehouses are secure is because the average age in this in in this industry is sixty three, sixty four. So most of these people at that age going independent does not make sense because there is a breakeven point. You'll probably see more of them either stay and and sell their business to another advisor within the wirehouse, get paid that way, or leave to go to another warehouse and get paid. but to go independent, there's a breakeven point versus like for example

I had an option to go to another major firm and get paid very handsomely, which I turned down, which is was a lot of money at my age at the time, especially with three boys and a mortgage and all the things that young families have. But I turned it down 'cause I really believed that in the long term this was gonna be the best thing for my clients and for my family. that was the bet that I made. And I was young enough to make that bet. I was forty three. So

To answer your question, the wire houses are in good shape because the average age is old and they're not gonna make an independent

Anthony Codispoti (15:30)

What is that break even point, do you think? Where's the point where it could make sense?

Phil Palumbo (15:33)

It's probably when I did

the math of it, it was five years, four or five years. It all depends on how how much I grew. And I obviously did grow a lot. So I but I'd say probably right where I'm at right now is is about to break even. But the value of my business, you know, where it is the value of my business from a a multiple standpoint if I was in the warehouse world, I mean, it's like four or five times worth more in the independent world versus the wire warehouse world.

So it's not even close. my net worth as a result of being independent, the value of my business is it's just when you fact if I were to sell everything today versus making a move, it's not even close. It's like light years ahead.

Anthony Codispoti (16:12)

And so that break even is just because there's a lot of upfront costs that are involved. Gotta open the office, there's technology that

Phil Palumbo (16:17)

Well when I say break here, meaning

that for example, if I took a large check and to

Anthony Codispoti (16:21)

Uh

Phil Palumbo (16:21)

move from one firm to another firm, I'm just making it up. Let's say it's a million dollars, right? Right. So I have to make up for that million dollars that I would have received in making gross income here, net income here, and that's where that math can ended up being like four or five years. Million dollars is just an example, but you know,

Anthony Codispoti (16:35)

Okay, I get that. That tracks. Yeah.

Phil Palumbo (16:39)

larger than that, but you understand.

Mentors and Investment Philosophy

Anthony Codispoti (16:41)

As you think back to the prior work experiences that you had, Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, UBS, any particular mentors that jump out at you really formative in shaping how you think about this space.

Phil Palumbo (16:52)

yeah, absolutely. yeah, one one mentor of mine who did go independent. And actually he went independent, I think it was sixty five, and he left a lot of money on the table too. Which is so so that was actually not the norm. But and and that was very motivating because when he made I didn't know he was gonna make that move, but when he did because everybody keeps it quiet, but when he did make that move, I remember leaving him a message saying, Wow, that that no, that was a power move, right? There's so many reasons, like you foregoed.

X amount of dollars at 60 in your sixties to go independent because you really believed in the model. And then he sold his RAA about two years ago for a great number. So he was way ahead of the game, right? So that's one mentor of mine, another mentor of mine stayed in the warehouse world and great guy. So talk to him today. they have great sounding boards for the business. They have great experience and they're really, really good people. So that's that's how I use them to help me.

What I do.

Anthony Codispoti (17:47)

And so how would you explain your investment philosophy to folks?

Phil Palumbo (17:51)

Yeah, so a couple ways. Number one, the words I would use is exclusive and access and performance. So we have exclusive strategies that we run for our clients that you can't get anywhere. That's number one. And number two, we have access to investment strategies and private investments on the private investment size that you can't just get anywhere. And we can get it in size.

Like for example, we're invested we invested in Cerebrus as a firm a couple of years ago at fourteen dollars a share, one public at over three hundred. Now it's trading in two hundred range. that's one example. Grok, which was taken over by NVIDIA, the resource that we get access to privates was invested in Grok at a very early stages. Psychantum is another investment idea that we invested in at a seven billion dollar valuation.

I believe that valuation is going to be higher on the next round. So that and that's gonna be the first quantum computer to be built. So we have these, we have access to these privates that is extremely attractive and it's producing performance, right? So the exclusivity, the access is delivering performance that is really above and beyond that I personally have experienced. So I my personal accounts, I perform not just because markets have gone up.

But relative to the performance of markets, I've never performed better because of the investment platform that we've built here. So we are definitely built Yeah. Both

Anthony Codispoti (19:15)

And that platform includes a lot of non publics. These are private companies that

Phil Palumbo (19:19)

publics and nonpublics. Yeah. So the team that I brought on that manages the publics with me, and then the privates as well. So the idea is that we are we're not managers that are investing in exchange traded funds and mutual funds. We don't just bring you on as a client and just say, hey, offload it to

in my opinion, below average investments, right? Because all these managers and mutual funds, they're all hugging the indexes. They're not delivering they're not delivering performance because they're afraid to deviate from the index because they're afraid to lose their job. It's a fact, right? So here at my firm, we built high conviction portfolios. We don't care about deviating from the index. We're just looking to deliver performance for you over time. And and that works when you have good strong research behind that. So so that's the dip the huge differentiating fact.

Exclusive Strategies and Private Investments

Anthony Codispoti (20:05)

You mentioned exclusive strategies. Is the exclusive strategies just the access to some of these non publics or is there something else as well?

Phil Palumbo (20:11)

No. So for I'll

give you an example. So we're launching a a private biotech healthcare international portfolio. So we'll be d directly investing on international exchanges, specifically Japan, Europe, and and in China. So it'll be a concentrated portfolio of twenty ideas and it's a long term strategy when I look into trade. But that's something that, you know, can't do on your own and I have not seen a a strategy out there that's doing that.

One of my partners that works with me who specializes in this area, when he went through with me, he's been managing money with my for us now for three years with an incredible track record with us. So I trust him explicitly and he's very skilled. And he sees opportunity with these smaller to midsize healthcare biotech companies to deliver performance in the international space. And these larger pharmaceutical companies are looking to gobble up these smaller companies that have something interesting that they don't have.

So so that's the whole theme and thesis behind it, that's something totally different and exclusive.

Anthony Codispoti (21:09)

That's really cool.

Phil Palumbo (21:10)

examples like that. It is, it really listen, my own personal money's invested and it's working really, really well.

Anthony Codispoti (21:16)

tell me more about how you get access to the non privates or the non publics, the privates. Yeah.

Phil Palumbo (21:21)

privates, yeah. So

so we have so Mark Weiss, who works with directly with our team. So he has access, he's been in this world for since 2006. He's very connected in this space, in this technology space. So because of that, and his whole focus of his, so he runs a long-only technology strategy, small to mid-sized type companies that are emerging, right? So like looking for the next Nvidia's and Amazons in the world, disruptive companies like Joby and Archer, for example.

Right, the EV tall electrical V vertical takeoff electrical taxis, right? So that's that's a disruptive type industry that he's that we're investing in within the strategy. So he's so he's very plugged into the technology community. And because of that, he finds these opportunities with these private companies. And then when he gets access to like Genesis Moleculars, another one we're just doing right now as we're speaking. So they're a company which competes with

Google's Alpha, which just came out with incredible news just the other day. And basically, what these companies do is, through AI and through modeling, normally pharmaceutical companies, when they're trying to solve for a disease, it could take nine to ten years and billions of dollars to figure out how a molecule attaches to a protein. Through these programs like Genesis Molecular, through their models, they're able to simulate thousands of scenarios, which Google Alpha just came up with the other day.

And through sequencing and then figure out how to how that molecule can attach to the print protein and solve for disease and accelerate that process by about a up to a month or maybe even a year, or maybe even if it's two years, you're still saving billions of dollars. And apparently the FDA now may also get involved and use their their their modeling as well. So, you know, to me, this is where AI's biggest benefit's gonna come from, where we can use AI to solve for some of the things that really takes a long time to solve for.

And Genesis Molecular is right on the forefront, right with Alpha, Google Alpha. And they've signed some really big deals with Insight already. I think they did a hundred and twenty million dollars with them in revenue already. And the valuation we got in on is is most likely gonna be a billion dollars. their biggest competitor, you know, they think they're worth maybe like ten billion. it's opportunities like this that are are truly unique and

And not we're not just trying to be unique, Anthony, to be unique and different, but these are great opportunities. I'm I'm excited about it, my own personal money, right? So No, exactly. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (23:39)

Yeah. Not just novel for novelty's sake, but what's something we

can do that they can't get everywhere else, but that's gonna give them bigger returns than they're gonna get everywhere else too?

Phil Palumbo (23:48)

Yeah. And my clients who have a lot of wealth, maybe they're they love this type of stuff. of course listen, owning NVIDIA and Microsoft, that's like table stakes at this point, right? So it's like if you don't own that, if you're not doing that as an advisor, just then there's something really wrong. But to complement all of that, all these other unique things that we're doing, is gonna deliver performance on top of the table stakes types of investment.

Anthony Codispoti (24:08)

Any concerns about investing heavily in the privates because it's a little bit less liquid, right?

Phil Palumbo (24:14)

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So everything's positioning, number one. Two things. Positioning and communication. When I talk to clients about these deals, even like a Genesis, which Mark Weiss totally disagrees with me on, but I don't care. I say to my clients all the time, like, listen, when you invest in these things, you could lose all your money. I want you to go into it thinking that way. If you're not comfortable with that, then do not do it. I'm not getting paid more to have this conversation with you or less. I'm telling you this because I really believe in it and I think it's a great thing. And that goes back to what I said before. There's no conflicts. I'm not

I'm not calling you up as my client and saying invest here because I'm going to make an extra commission. Right. So that's the beauty behind it. I'm doing it because I believe in it. I've done the research, the due diligence, and I I'm very confident in Mark's work. So that so that's an example of that. So from a risk standpoint, it's all about positioning. So typically we go in at a half a percent of someone's portfolio into any of these ideas. So the most they'll have is five percent exposure to some of these privates.

And if fifty percent work out, you're way, way, way ahead of the game, right? even if thirty percent work out, you know, like for example, Cerebrus, it was like a that was like a twenty-two X return. So, right. So if you lost out on one deal and you made so that's that's the way that worked. But but to answer your question, there's the illiquidity factor for sure, and there's definitely risk inherent. So clients have to understand that. If you're not interested, you don't have to do it.

Anthony Codispoti (25:32)

Great transparency in your communication right up front.

Phil Palumbo (25:35)

It has to be.

Working With Business Owners Planning an Exit

Anthony Codispoti (25:36)

Yeah. who's the right client fit for you? What do they look like?

Phil Palumbo (25:40)

Yeah, we moved up market a lot and we continue to do that. So going forward, for the last couple of years, the focus is really continues to be if someone asks me on a golf course, what do you do? I I'm a private wealth man, I own my own private wealth management firm focused on helping founders exit their business. There's so much so much so much complexity as it relates to exiting your business. Everything from pre-sale to in which means increasing the multiple on their business.

to post sale, especially taxes and mitigating as much as you can as far as taxes so they could take home as much money as possible. And then all the planning around that, for cash flow purposes and investing. But there's so much to do. And that's what's so exciting, right? So we do so much for our clients. It's not just investing in stocks and bonds. It's so value added to the entire family. If in a even if by advice I can increase their multiple by one or two turns, I'm talking about millions of dollars I'm putting in their pocket before even investing with my firm.

So it's like this is stuff like I'm really passionate about. so so that's so that's where the firm has has moved into and and really more is gonna be exclusively working with founders exiting their business. So that means that our our number our our account sizes will naturally rise, which it has. So, you know, we're at

probably average the account size today of around five million. eventually I think that number will be at ten million. If you take our top fifty clients, which I predominantly work with, you know, the average account size is north of

Anthony Codispoti (27:09)

So your typical client is a business owner who is maybe working towards an exit or has already had an exit and now you've helped them to cross over that threshold to mitigate the tax consequences and to manage the wealth that's come from that transaction.

Phil Palumbo (27:26)

Yes. But just to be clear, so if we're doing this for twenty six years, I wasn't focused from the very beginning on founders exiting. So that's been the past couple of three years since I really got my CEPA, my certified exit planning advisory. So if I broke out all of my clients today from the day one since I started in the business, it's about a third medical doctors, a third executives, and a third founders of businesses exiting.

Anthony Codispoti (27:47)

But your focus going forward is more on those founders, those business owners. Yeah.

Phil Palumbo (27:50)

Yes. Correct.

Anthony Codispoti (27:51)

What has you so excited about that space in particular?

Phil Palumbo (27:54)

my gosh,

everything. Dum the primary the primary reason is so I'm a founder who literally built my life from scratch. I live literally built my life from negative, you know, meaning I had a I had a a loan after I graduated college, right? So my net worth was negative coming out of college and I built this entire business career all on my own from from nothing. of course I had great parents and loving and and you know, they were always, you know, very helpful and

And all that. But so so in doing that, build a certain way about yourself. And when I'm around other founders who have similar characteristics, it's like we just it just I love being around them i in every aspect. The energy, the passion, you know, in every aspect. The whether we were talking about business, whether we're talking about economics, we're talking about markets, or whether talking about, you know, golf or wine or you know.

l great luxuries in life and we only we only have access to those luxuries because we worked hard to be able to do that. Right. So it's not like I did it to get that. I just fortunately we worked hard and we're, we're at a really good place economically. So so there's just so much in a way of commonality that it's like fireworks going off and we're together. And I just love that. Right. we just add a tremendous value to them and their families. And I think they're really grateful for that.

So when you combine all of that, Anthony, it's just it's such a win-win for everybody.

Anthony Codispoti (29:15)

Talk to me about some of the things that you're able to do for folks that are in that exit planning stage. I'm a business owner. I built up a nice business. My kids maybe don't want to take over this. I need to figure out what's next here. What are you doing?

Phil Palumbo (29:29)

Yeah, so

the first thing is to build a power team around them, which I've done. Meaning that, having the right investment banker who has a lot of knowledge and expertise in in helping the the business clean up to prepare for exit, which usually if you give us two years minimum, that's very helpful because there are a lot of things business owners can do. For example, if the business is really reliant on the owner, that's a know, that's a that's a negative. If the business is concentrated in one or two or three clients, that's a negative.

So if the business is not professionalized, that's a negative, right? All of that affects the multiple of your EBITDA. So the idea is to go in there and say, hey, what can we do to professionalize the firm, to move you away from the firm and not so dependent on you? Because obviously, as you know, and everybody else knows, if I'm gonna buy your firm and your firm is completely reliant on you, that if I buy your firm and you're not there anymore, your clients are gonna leave. I mean, that's not a good thing, right? So so you wanna

And then recurring revenue too, right? Is obviously an important factor. what can we do with your company prior to exit that could increase the turn multiple? Could we do we can increase the multiple by one, two, or three times more? And maybe even more than that. Right? And then talking through strategic buyers. Strategic buyers is where you get the best bang for your buck if it's a situation if it's a situation that makes a lot of sense for the buyer. Sometimes you get

four or five times or six times more than you you than you thought originally. So so so discussing that, with the founder, with a coach, with an investment banker, with a a business attorney, who all have experience with working with founders that have exited that can give you really, really good feedback prior to exit. So so that's that's prior to exit.

Tax Planning After a Business Sale

Anthony Codispoti (31:16)

the place my mind goes next though is talk to me about the tax mitigation part. Like I think

Phil Palumbo (31:21)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (31:21)

some of the strategies there can be really exciting too.

Phil Palumbo (31:24)

So that's why I stopped with the pre-exit, right? Then you have the pre-exit, then it's then it's the planning for the actual exit itself. So which means that, okay, well, where are you in terms of your cost basis of your business? So you're meeting with the accountant and you're trying to really figure that out. So if I sell my business for $50 million, you know, what's the cost basis of your overall business? So there's this one one company I'm working with who were gonna sell the business for $60 million, and their basis is literally zero. And zero because they had sold part of their business.

a couple of years ago and they used all the basis for that to mitigate taxes. So for this new sale, it's a long story, but that's really the story, right? So basically what can we do to preserve as much as that capital so they can get the most of that on an after-tax return basis? So there there is a a a strategy. not going to go through the whole thing today, but basically the short version is there is a way to invest that capital where the money manager can harvest losses

throughout so in a perfect world, if you sold your business January second, that would be the perfect world. You sold it January 2nd. So if you join celebrate January 2nd, we can invest in the public markets two different ways. If you're if you're risk averse, we can invest more conservatively. If you're okay with risk, then we can then we could take basically the beta of the market or the return of the market. So the idea is they give you the return of the market, but harvest losses all throughout the year.

And we could harvest losses up to ninety percent. So if you put sixty million in there, ninety percent of that, which is called, fifty four million in losses that can be harvest to offset against the gain. So the client walks away with a really good after tax return.

Anthony Codispoti (33:02)

And where are you

harvesting these losses from? From the market returns or from another business they own or?

Phil Palumbo (33:05)

Yeah, so basically

yeah, so they actually own public stocks, both long and short. And so in so if you're investing a dollar, they're really investing five dollars. So the surface area coverage is is really broad, but it's neutralized. So you're not really taking the risk like you're thinking because your coverage area is five times. But you're so you're really investing long with a dollar, but then you in long, call it two fifty and short two fifty. So the two fifty long to two fifty short.

neutralizes, so it's like market neutrals. You're not taking risk there because it neutralizes itself. when we add all of that up, that surface area coverage, the through quantitative computers, you're able to consistently harvest losses, in this case every four weeks, to generate that ninety percent of tax losses.

Anthony Codispoti (33:50)

Let me see if I understood this, 'cause options are not my area of expertise, but you're taking

Phil Palumbo (33:53)

not options

so it's not options. It's all it's long stocks. You actually long stocks and you're short stocks.

Anthony Codispoti (33:59)

So you're on both sides of the spread and because one of those sides is going to lose, that's the loss that you get to harvest. But you haven't

Phil Palumbo (34:06)

Right. So you may be long.

Anthony Codispoti (34:08)

actually lost because you were on you were straddling both sides of the fence.

Phil Palumbo (34:11)

Right.

Exactly. Correct. Yep. Yep. And they have all the data to prove it. You know, believe me, I've done research inside and out. Two major players that are in this space that I'm invested with, both been doing this for a considerable amount of time. Stuff has been tested going back, which I don't love all the time, you know, but I I I prefer live data, but there's good enough live data. and and the amount of growth with both of these companies in terms of assets under management has been through the roof for obvious reasons, right? Business owners are looking to sell.

So that's one example. There's D S Ts and some other stuff out there that I'm working closely with too as as other tools to be able to use to protect capital. But this is probably one of the best ways that I've been using to

Anthony Codispoti (34:47)

It's

a fascinating strategy. What do you call it?

Phil Palumbo (34:51)

It's not it's not what you call it, it's just it's know it's a tax tax it's

Anthony Codispoti (34:54)

It doesn't have a like a branded name or a

Phil Palumbo (34:56)

a tax lost harvesting strategy, So it it

Anthony Codispoti (34:58)

Yeah.

Phil Palumbo (34:59)

so there are other companies that have been doing this for fifteen years, but only on the long side. So they would be only able to capture maybe thirty percent over a twelve month period. But because AQR and Quantino, the two main managers that do this, they're able to capture long and short.

They've increased the surface area so they're able to capture more losses all throughout the year. It is really fascinating. I don't know how long it's gonna last because of the IRS. I think may step in eventually and say, there's a bunch of things to understand about it, but right now it's it seems to be working.

Anthony Codispoti (35:32)

The way the current laws are set up, this is completely legitimate and

Phil Palumbo (35:35)

Correct.

Because they are delivering alpha, right? Meaning that they're they're not just delivering the returns of the market, they're actually delivering returns more than the market while off while creating these losses like I explained to

Anthony Codispoti (35:49)

Let's talk about your book. you wrote a book called Make Work Optional. What's the general

Phil Palumbo (35:53)

Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (35:53)

idea behind this book?

Phil Palumbo (35:55)

Yeah, so so I always dislike the idea of how overmarketed retirement has been, as you know, right? Commercials and you know, the various things that are out there, people selling annuities and it's just the whole concept about retirement I just felt is so archaic. Where everybody's goal from when you day one start your career, it should be to get to the point where work is optional as quickly as possible.

Meaning that you're financially independent, that if you want to stop working, you have enough assets to generate cash flow to live the lifestyle that you want to live, the exact lifestyle. And so instead of saying to yourself, hey, I'm gonna retire at sixty, sixty five, I wanna get social security at full retirement age or at seventy, or my cousin retired at sixty-two, and all these arbitrary numbers in your head, you should be saying to yourself, get me to the point where work is optional as quickly as possible. And you start to have that mindset.

Then you have to really push yourself to learn how to manage your money and invest your money. Especially invest your money in risk assets. Not leave it in CDs, not leave it in cash, which is the biggest thing that biggest mistake people make, but really get involved in risk assets. So over 20, 30 years of compounding, you can be at that place where work is optional. That's number one. Number two, There are many people out there that don't.

realize they're at the point of work optional because they're scared or don't understand it. But so oftentimes I'll sit down with prospective clients and I'll help them understand you're, listen, if you were to stop working or you don't really love what you're doing and you want to try something different, you're at the point you're financially independent. And you go through s analysis to help them understand that that where they are in that situation.

Anthony Codispoti (37:34)

What changed for you after writing the book? Or was it just more of a fun exercise for you?

Phil Palumbo (37:38)

Yeah. It's something I always wanted to do. And I remembered I was at, my prior firm, I had inquired about that and they're like, You can't do it. I'm like, Why can't I do it? Because we don't have the manpower to really read the book and all the compliance around it. So I was really excited when I was independent to to start on this project. and so for me it was just a really a good kind of summary of my thinking, you know, as a

as a private wealth manager to my clients, all in one particular book in my thinking. Of course, I I look back now, I like to update it, to add a lot of different things as most I think authors do. But yeah, it was it was to me it was like a game changer. many new clients have said, listen, I just own my business, I read your book. Whatever you say in the book, just do for me. it was really cool. and you know, and you hand it off to

prospective clients and clients, I have to meet with people and stuff like that. So it I think it elevated me in terms of just anything else, someone who's a student of their of their career and student of their business. I always appreciated that and I think people appreciate that as well.

Anthony Codispoti (38:36)

Can people find this book on Amazon or is it only available through you?

Phil Palumbo (38:38)

Yeah. Yeah,

you can find it on Amazon.

Anthony Codispoti (38:42)

We'll we'll put the link in the show notes for folks. tell us about your podcast, Columbo Podcast. What do you talk about? Do you interview folks? Is it you talking, you and a coworker? What's it like?

Phil Palumbo (38:53)

Yes. It's just me interviewing founders of businesses that are still working in their business or business owners that have exited, right? Or or and MA attorneys, state and trust attorneys, accountants, investment bankers, or anything that any professionals or founders that are that are having their own business, anything that has to do with founders who are exiting or founders in general, that's what my podcast is about.

And so if you're a founder of a business, you could really learn a lot just from listening to other business owners and founders, or MA attorneys or investment bankers. Just so I think it's really informative. So that's seventy percent of it. Thirty percent or twenty, thirty percent is is around macroeconomic rec macroeconomist portfolio managers, predominantly to discuss investments and the macroeconomic landscape. that's the other part of the podcast as well.

Anthony Codispoti (39:44)

So the audience would be anybody that you just described that you have on as guests, I would assume. Yeah. Those are

Phil Palumbo (39:50)

Yes. Yeah, correct. Exactly.

Anthony Codispoti (39:53)

all folks that would find what you're talking about pretty interesting.

Phil Palumbo (39:55)

Yes.

How Phil Uses AI

Anthony Codispoti (39:57)

Phil, how are you using AI in your work?

Phil Palumbo (40:02)

I'm probably on using AI probably ten to fifteen times per day. Anything from any emails that I put out there making sure grammar is correct. That's number one, two. anything that I need to dive deeper into that I'm not really understanding. You know, recently Besson just just decided to create an operation where on September ninth, which is today, he's supposedly be buying long term bonds and bring yields down.

So just, I understand what he's doing, but if I want to just get in into greater detail, I'll utilize AI to help me with that. another example would be inflation, right? So what well why is inflation being stubborn? What part of the the the core CPI number is causing inflation to stay high? And and I'm really like diving as deep as I possibly can so I truly understand it.

If Warsh decides to increase rates, is it really going to make that much of a difference? So just diving really deep into in various subject matters that are on the forefront that I really want to understand in great detail. companies announce earnings, right? I want to know what the CEO said specifically. podcast, right? Plug in podcast, give me a summary of the podcast. I don't I I don't have five hours, six hours a week to listen to every podcast that are out there.

So it helps me summarize that summarizing articles. so so stuff like that that has increased productivity for me has been really tremendous. As far as implementing stuff within the firm, I'm going to do it, but I'm telling the only reason why I've been a little bit cautious is because in a good way, meaning that there are a lot of companies that are work with wealth management firms that have developing technology like almost like every other day I feel like there's something new that's out there. So I'm just taking my time. I don't want to spend thousands of dollars.

with one particular program and all of a sudden something better comes to fruition because I do think that's going to continue to happen. So that's why I've just been I've just been, entertaining meetings. tomorrow I have a meeting with the with a company that that I think it helped my firm in terms of AIs. And that's so I've just been like scratching the surface with it. I've had I built a couple of agents that's been good. I don't think great. I think it's been good. So so I'm just kind of waiting because I think it's it's getting better and better and better every day.

Anthony Codispoti (42:08)

the service provider that you're meeting with tomorrow, in what way might it support you guys? just being like an overall better research tool, surfacing

Phil Palumbo (42:16)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (42:16)

new ideas for you?

Phil Palumbo (42:17)

Well, one of the things that I want to do is, for example, if you're my client and you have various trust documents, you have a will, you have power of a can power attorney, durable power attorney. No, I want you to be able to understand that like if you said to yourself, if I die tomorrow, let's say husband and wife, husband dies tomorrow, right, all on one page, what happens exactly with my assets? Who's the trustee? Who's the beneficiary? Right, where do the assets go? And then when the other spouse dies, same thing.

Right, who inherits the money? What do the taxes look like? Right. So an all on one page, you know, flow charts, this way it makes it easy in not only just for the client, but like when we like when I sit down and review my client's portfolios, I always say to myself, did we take care of the state and trust planning piece? So by having all the stuff organized on one page or two pages, so the client can easily understand what did I do when I sat down with your attorney three years ago?

And so so there's technology that that'll hopefully be able to summarize

Anthony Codispoti (43:15)

summarize and synthesize some

of these documents and plans that exist that are are a little bit dense. Yeah.

Phil Palumbo (43:19)

Exactly. Exactly.

And same thing with taxes too. You can implement tax returns and then it helps you understand and organize where they stand from a tax standpoint. So, that that that's where the stuff is really going to be, I think, cool and helpful for clients. And me as the advisor.

Anthony Codispoti (43:34)

I had a conversation with a successful wealth advisor like yourself off air, and they expressed their belief that at some point AI was going to replace what it is that they do. Do you have any fears or concerns of that coming?

Phil Palumbo (43:48)

Listen, of course you always have fears, but at the end of the day, I know for my personal self that I like to have a human involved to look them in the eye and ask questions. Like, you know, give me an example like this is a st silly and small example, but I need a new air airpods for when I go running and I work out, right? So the ones I had were like twelve years old. So I went there and I probably could have did some AI research and it would have told me to buy X, Y, and Z. But when I went into Apple store.

And they had three different options and speaking to the the girl and her response to my questions built conviction to buy what I bought. So I think at the end of the day, especially what we do, if you think about it, if you spend 30, 40 years, at least for what I do, if you spend 30, 40 years building a business and you're selling it for 40 and 50 million dollars, and think about what I told you already, right? Exclusive investment strategies, direct access to privates, tax strategy to mitigate taxes.

Right. So those that's just you're just scratching the surface what we do for our clients. you know, to put everything in through a robot or an AI tool and have them really manage your life versus a human that's going to be there, especially if you die, you know, who's your spouse gonna use? Are they gonna go into AI robot and how so I just think that at least the baby boomer generation and maybe in the generation before that?

But maybe those that are fifteen and sixteen years old today, maybe if they get so used to using AI and they're comfortable with it, maybe that becomes a problem. But but I just think that the value that we add and what people really want is that personal touch. I just find it hard to think that AI is gonna take over our business.

Anthony Codispoti (45:29)

it'll be interesting to see how it unfolds. I can just

Phil Palumbo (45:31)

And I'll just say one last thing.

I don't mean to interrupt you. One last thing. The and I do also believe and this did happen with it happened with some of these other robot I you know, robot tools that were out. Betterment, Betterment, Betterment and there were a couple others. Do you remember Betterment? Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (45:43)

Mm mm. I don't.

Phil Palumbo (45:45)

So they was like you open an account, everything was like sort of like robotic,

There was a big to-do with them that they were going to take over our business as well. And what ended up happening is Morgan Stanley and UBS just ended up buying them out. So these firms like Morgan Stanley and UBS who have billions of dollars and and I know just them, Wells Fargo, and then very profitable, I can't imagine they're gonna just let somebody develop something that's just gonna take their businesses out. I think if anything, they'll figure out a way to buy them out and incorporate the incorporate in the business. But listen, anything in life could happen. you always have to be on your toes and be prepared for that.

Anthony Codispoti (46:16)

I do think it'll be really interesting to see how this progresses. I'm going to use a little case study for myself. recently bought a grill, like outdoor grill, right? We need to replace our old one. And I used AI for the research. Here's what I'm looking for, rough price range. And it came back with some suggestions. And it's it highlighted one in particular. It says this one has all the features that you want. Well, you know, if I had just blindly followed that, I would have ended up getting the wrong grill.

Because I go and I read the details and I read the reviews on this, and it does not match my requirements. And so I think to your point, like being able to talk with the expert is that that's still AI hasn't gotten to the place yet where it's smart enough to be able to replace that expertise. I want to talk

Phil Palumbo (47:02)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (47:03)

to somebody who has used the grill before. You want to talk to somebody who knows the iPod, the AirPod options.

You want to talk to the person that has thirty years investment experience. I I think there's

Phil Palumbo (47:13)

Right. Right.

Anthony Codispoti (47:15)

a bridge to to cross before we get there. I don't think we're there quite yet.

Phil Palumbo (47:18)

I agree with you. And I think you could see it with the software stocks where a lot of these lot of investors thought that AI was going to take over these software stocks like Salesforce and CrowdStrike and there was this concern that's why those stocks got crushed and all of a sudden there's this huge rally, you know, recognizing that, you know, it's not gonna happen overnight. I mean, to create your own CRM system and have it run the way s Salesforce runs it. So I think like anything else, you know, it it gets great publicity and it's gonna be phenomenal, don't get me wrong. And it is gonna, you know, probably

disrupt certain industries, but I think at the end of the day, humans like to be with humans.

Getting Cut, Rebuilding Confidence, and Grit

Anthony Codispoti (47:50)

Mm. I'm gonna switch gears on you, Phil. You know, a lot of valuable lessons come from mentors like we talked about before. And sometimes valuable lessons really come from these hard life experiences. What's one of the hardest things that you've had to go through and what did going through that teach you?

Phil Palumbo (48:08)

Yeah, I would say

When I was in high school a senior, I was you know, I I was one of the better players on my team and, you know, for a couple of three years. And, you know, when you're in high school, at the pinnacle of my athletic career. I decided to go to Townsend University and and walk on, which is division one at the top at the time we were top ten. So I decided to to walk on. I was so like confident of myself, like, you know, I didn't even think twice about it, right? Literally, which is so crazy, I think, back today.

But so when I went to go walk on the field the very first day of tryouts, I was watching all these guys play. I'm like, my goodness, these guys are unbelievable. In fact, they're even better than me. So long story short, I ended up trying out and I and I did I did well. And then people getting cut and people getting cut and people getting cut. And all of a I got a point where nobody else was getting cut.

And this went on for a couple three days. I'm like, gosh, maybe I made this team. And we're at the gym working out with the team. And Coach Carl Runk, who's a great guy, I love him. I go up to I go up to him and I say, Coach Runk, just curious, we're at the doorway right now, right? you know, did I make the team? And he goes, son, he goes, He's a Southern accent, he goes, Son, you were on the fence with you, you know, but I don't think it's gonna work. And I'm telling you, man, I you know, my entire

being was completely collapsed, right? So I went in my, all the confidence I had being where I was in high school, literally my identity was destroyed. So literally I walk out of there and I'm walking home. I'm like distraught. I talked so I called my mom and my dad first and I literally started crying hysterically. Right. And they felt bad of course, and anyway, so long story short, the the coach at New York Tech

Coach Cayley, God rest his soul, he passed away, but a phenomenal coach. He calls me up, lit literally the very next day. He goes, Phil, you come home, I'll give you a full scholarship. I go, Coach, I go, Coach, it sounds awesome. I'm in. And I said, but I have to come back here to Towns. He goes, just give me a shot. I said, Okay. So I went there and I played for a I played that spring season because I got cut in the fall. And then I played really well. I think I was like the top scoring guy in in division two at the time.

And then I said, I have to go back. And I left. And I went back and I tried out in the fall at Towson. And here I am, which is crazy to me. I can't believe I even did this. So here I'm trying out and I'm playing like lights out, man. It was like I was like a a horse with blinders. Like I wasn't I was totally like engaged, like totally focused. And I and I really played well. like time went by, people getting cut.

And now we're doing what's hill repeats, right? You go down a hill, you run up. You go down a hill, you run up. So I'm running up and I'm like, barely breathe. And and coach, my goodness, I forget his name, Clark. Coach Clark goes, pay Palumbo. And I look up at him, I What's up, coach? He goes, Congratulations. You made the team. I was like, my goodness. So that was like incredible, right? Because I never forget that. And it was just something a situation where like

I just wanted it so bad to play Division One. I didn't care what it took. Obviously, in looking back, I think it was crazy, but I did it. So and and my identity got destroyed for that period of time and I rebuilt it. And I don't know how I did it. it was just a will that I had and I fought through it and did what I had to do. And fortunately I ended up on the other side of that, which was great.

Anthony Codispoti (51:26)

I love that story. I hear a lot of similar stories, but with a different ending. and it's whether it's sports or it was a profession or it was a business, that somebody's identity is so tied to it, so anchored to it, that when that goes away, there's an

Phil Palumbo (51:40)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (51:41)

injury that prevents them from playing. They get cut from the team, their business files for bankruptcy. It's like your insides just got ripped out. You don't know who you are or how you fit into the world anymore. And

Phil Palumbo (51:53)

Absolutely. It's right. It's true. It really is true. Like your whole demeanor changes. I mean, it's really was it was I would describe myself from really one word, is just grit, you know, is y you have that grit as I did as I did and I still do and it carried over to my career and I'm I'm just I'm fortunate enough I'm still standing here.

Anthony Codispoti (52:12)

As you think about the work that you're doing now, Phil, what is it that you most want to be remembered for?

Phil Palumbo (52:17)

Yeah, so I always say I talked about this in my book, there are three legs to a stool which describes life. The first leg is your health, right? So taking care of your health and doing all we can, eating well, you know, exercising. And if you take care of your health, then you can enjoy your family. Because if you're unhealthy, it's really hard to have fun with your family because you're worried about your health. And then the next part is like I said, take care of your family, doing all the right things as a husband, a wife, a mom, a dad. And then in order to enjoy your family, the third leg of the stool

is your finances and managing your finances properly. And if you mismanage any one of those three, as you can imagine, the stool will fall over as your life will fall will fall over. And the idea that I manage one of those legs of the stool for my clients is to me extrem extremely gratifying and and motivating. So if I can continue as I have

to help my clients accomplish their life goals and living the lifestyle that they're used to living for the rest of their life and never worry about running out of money, then, you know, and if I can be just, you know, remembered as one that was always well, that I have that always there for my clients and I always have their back, no matter what. If they call me, if they need me, you know, I run for them as I always do. You know, so far as what I do as a career, you know, that's what's really, really important to me.

Anthony Codispoti (53:43)

What's one rule that you would never break in business no matter what it cost you?

Phil Palumbo (53:48)

It's very simple. I tell the story all the time. My grandfather and I sitting down, he was 89 years old. And I said to him, I said, Grandpa, I said, you live 89 years. What's one piece of advice you can give me? And he said to me right away, without even a thought, Phil, always have a clear head. Always have a clear head. what that means is that, never give up your values. this is who I am, this is how I do things. I always want to have a clear head. I never want to walk away from a situation be like, should I have done that?

I'd not have done that, right? Every decision I made is, this is how I'm gonna do it, because I always want to have a clear head and never want to worry about anything. Right. You're always gonna worry about your kids, obviously, stuff like that, but I'm talking about decisions as it relates to business and doing always the right thing by the client, always, and having a clear head. to me, if you could live life like that you're going to live an incredible life.

to so to me, waking up every day with a clear head is the most important value I could recommend to anyone.

Anthony Codispoti (54:41)

Phil, before I ask my last question, I want to do three quick things for the audience. First of all, anybody who wants to get in touch with Phil Palumbo, go to his website, palumbowm.com. It's WM for Wealth Management, palumbowm.com. And if you're enjoying the show today, please take a moment to subscribe wherever you're listening. It sends a signal that helps others discover our podcast. So thanks for taking a quick moment to do that.

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So last question for you, Phil. A year from now, what is one very specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?

Phil Palumbo (55:44)

As it relates to business.

Anthony Codispoti (55:47)

Business, personal, it's all up for grabs here.

Phil Palumbo (55:49)

Yeah. you know, from a year from now, you know, my son just made his decision to commit to a grade school, which we're really excited about, you know, Wesleyan University, playing lacrosse there. And you know, in a year from now he's gonna be settling in over there. I would be so happy if he's really happy and settled in the you know, it's a big move for our entire family, all that you know, all that stuff that people that happens when people leave the home to go to college, et cetera.

So he just made that decision to commit just a couple of days ago. So, if he's happy, I'll be my wife and I and our whole family will be super happy. So from a year from now, from a personal standpoint, that's to me what's most important.

Anthony Codispoti (56:26)

That's great. Phil Palumbo from Palumbo Wealth Management. I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate you being here.

Phil Palumbo (56:35)

Great job, Anthony. I appreciate it too.

Anthony Codispoti (56:37)

Hey folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories Podcast. Thanks for learning with us. And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.

Connect with Phil Palumbo:

Website: palumbowm.com