A $60 Million Business Became $200 Million: John DeCastro's Leadership in Golf Technology

Career Journey: From Student Agency to Corporate Leadership

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)

Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories Podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome adversity. As you listen today, let one idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Codispoti, and today's guest started a student advertising agency in college. And three decades later, he is launching laser measuring tools that talk to a phone and turn a contractor's walkthrough into a finished floor plan.

In between, he sold greeting cards, camping gear, golf rangefinders, and men's dress shirts. After six years building global product strategy for Bushnell Golf, the number one rangefinder brand carried by 98% of PGA tour pros, he moved into leadership roles at Skytrack Golf Studio and Mizin in Maine. In March 2026, he took on a new challenge, building a North American operation from the ground up to the

For a Chinese precision measurement manufacturer working out of Kansas City. John DeCastro is Vice President of North American Operations at Mileseey C Technologies US. The Mileseey C Tools brand, a vertically integrated maker of laser distance meters, thermal imagers, night vision, and golf optics, founded in 2009. The company reports more than 270 patents, 10 million users, and sales in over 100 countries.

Plus

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Lessons from the Coleman Company

John DeCastro (02:47)

good morning, Anthony. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure to be here.

Anthony Codispoti (02:51)

So, John, tell us about this student advertising agency that you started while you were still at Wichita State. Back in nineteen ninety four you joined the Morris Fry agency. What were you doing? What did you take away from that experience?

John DeCastro (03:04)

Yeah, so while at Wichita State, uh a couple students and one of our professors decided that we would start an agency. And as you stated, this is back in the nineties, and so this was a time where most of our clients were fraternities and sororities or people trying to raise money on campus. And then we networked a little bit with local agencies so that we could take some smaller kind of spillover projects and

and then that led into my first job that you know, I got really before I graduated with the Morris Fry Agency. Uh it was a great experience, but I'll tell you, Anthony, the one thing I learned is that advertising agencies are a young man's sport. Um, I learned a lot there about feast and famine and how to try to stay busy when you're not and how to manage the chaos when you are. So that was probably the biggest lesson I got from Morris Fry.

Anthony Codispoti (04:00)

Were you responsible for bringing clients in?

John DeCastro (04:03)

To some degree. so we were a small agency and so we had to wear a lot of hats. And uh at first I was hired as a copywriter and just, you know, talk about how life feeds your curveball sometimes. When I was going to school, my grand plan was I was going to be an advertising copywriter by day and write screenplays by night until I became rich and famous. And so I started that way, and I got a job as a copywriter and

Much to my disappointment, I was writing copy for about the first five or six months. And then through just a series of events where people more important than me were busy with clients more important than the one I was meeting with, we discovered, and I say we because I didn't know this either, we discovered that I was pretty comfortable in the room and talking with clients. And slowly I was writing less and less.

And doing more account management, it getting into strategy a little bit, and kind of discovered that I was a pretty average writer. And by the way, it took me many years before I could confess that. And and I still don't accept it very well when other people suggest that of me. But I was a pretty average writer. But what came kind of naturally to me was just understanding how bits and pieces come together and how to pay attention to things and

When you boil it all down, that's kind of what we call strategy.

Product Management Insights and Success Stories

Anthony Codispoti (05:34)

It's so interesting. As you look back prior to the discovery of this about yourself, were there early clues that this is really where your strengths lied, or is it this opportunity that kind of allowed them to bubble to the surface for the first time?

John DeCastro (05:49)

Yeah, great question. I think there were clues for everyone who was paying attention and I was not in that set. Uh I remember going to I I I continued to have a relationship with that instructor who uh who started the agency with us. And I remember going back to him and saying, Man, I'm so disappointed. I think I'm gonna quit. I'm not writing anything, I'm doing all this stuff. And he kind of shook me awake and said, John, that's always been

what you've done. And he pointed out, you know, at Wichita State, we uh the advertising students there got uh elected to go and do these competitions. And some of your listeners may be familiar with this, but there are, you know, college student competitions. There's usually a corporate sponsor, and you show up regionally and then you go and do a national competition if you win. And uh and he pointed out to me that in all of those

competitions that I did, I was sort of leading the team and wasn't doing a lot of the writing, even though it was so collaborative, I think I felt like I was.

Anthony Codispoti (06:59)

Mm, I like that. It's it's so interesting because I can think back to a couple of times in my life where there was something that was so obvious to everyone else about me, my personality, my skills, that I couldn't see until somebody else pointed it out. And that's exactly

John DeCastro (07:15)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (07:15)

what your situation was there.

John DeCastro (07:17)

Yeah, undoubtedly. And I think, you know, as all of us kind of share stories, I'm I'm often amazed at how humility and being able to accept other people's perspectives as to what you're good at or maybe not good at, uh, is a great guiding light if we're if we're willing to follow it.

Anthony Codispoti (07:37)

So let's move forward. In nineteen ninety-eight, you left the agency and you joined the Coleman Company as a senior product manager. Everybody knows the Coleman group, right? Camping brand, coolers, tents, sleeping bags, lanterns. Um, so I want to understand what it was that you were doing in this role. Were you marketing the products that had already been chosen, or were you actually involved in choosing and developing the products?

John DeCastro (08:03)

Yeah, yeah. So both. And so the Coleman Company was my first real uh experience in what product management can mean. And it means different things to different companies, I've come to find out since. But at that point in time, uh as a product manager, we would go and evaluate markets. We figured out what our position might be in that competitive set. We worked with an engineering team to define what a feature set might be.

We'd work with a marketing team that was both internal and external as to what the priority of marketable features would be. Uh, we made recommendations on price point. And so it was a great learning experience for me. You know, I was I was hired on as a as a you know, young sort of product manager was the title they gave me. Eventually I was promoted up to a senior level product manager where I had others reporting under me, but I was

you know, it it I went into that and uh what a great learning that was as to how consumer products really works.

Anthony Codispoti (09:08)

So take us through a couple of examples. Let's talk first about a product that ended up exceeding expectations. What did you think was gonna happen? By how much did it outperform? And what do you attribute that performance to?

John DeCastro (09:25)

Yeah. Well, uh this is I think a great story. So right when I had started, I was hired in uh the Coleman Company had different divisions and I was in the insulated group. And to you and me, that means coolers. And uh I was sitting through, you know, back then, uh again I'm dating myself, but we would sit through uh consumer surveys and studies and

You know, we bring together focus groups and we were going around doing all these focus groups trying to figure out what the next great cooler innovation would be. And I'm sitting in this meeting and honestly, kind of uh it's just killing me not to just raise my hand and say something because I hear everyone in the room talking about consumers were talking about cup holders and they were talking about bigger wheels so that you could roll them over.

you know, rougher terrain and they were talking about all these sort of features. And what I heard in those studies was the first thing everyone would say is, Can you make the ice stay longer? And uh finally, after days of the back and forth and we were getting to a point where we were really going to decide, okay, what is it that the next Coleman Cooler family is going to be? I did raise my hand and I said, you know, I

I thought people said they wanted the ice to last longer. And I got a lot of excuses. Hey, there are regulations on CFCs and carbofluorable carbons or whatever that make the foam less efficient. And if you make the foam walls too thick, you get less capacity and people want to be able to hold a large amount of of sodas or beers or whatever they want to hold. And I'm like, Yeah, but I think they said first.

That they want those things to stay cold. And thank goodness for me, one of the lead engineers on that kind of raised his hand. Anyway, long story short, we pivoted a bit, and that led to the Coleman Extreme Cooler product line that later uh we marketed as the first uh 24-hour cooler. holds ice for 24 hours. Well, you've seen.

And everybody's witnessed how that evolved. And you've had companies, I can't claim that Yeti was started because of the extreme cooler, but certainly Yeti grabbed a hold of that. And today I think you see coolers fight for space that says we'll keep ice longer. And uh, you know, that was kind of an early, an early experience for me. And it simply came from, you know, not overthinking it and just paying attention to to what the market tells you.

Innovating the Coleman Cooler

Anthony Codispoti (12:14)

So from a technical standpoint, how did you guys accomplish that? Was it a different kind of insulation? Was it an air gap? What was the approach?

John DeCastro (12:21)

It was thicker walls. And you know, the one knock on the extreme coolers was you had a cooler that was like the size of we you you usually coolers are measured in quarts and so it was about the size of a forty-eight quart cooler, but it only held thirty-two quarts.

And it was wall thickness and consumers adopted it. And Coleman's market share at that point in time. You know, you had Igloo, who was a market leader, you had Rubbermaid, who was right there. Coleman at that time had about a twenty-eight percent market share. And when the extreme cooler got in there, it jumped up to a thirty-five percent market share, which was pretty significant for them.

Anthony Codispoti (12:58)

Wow. That's awesome.

John DeCastro (13:01)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (13:02)

Did you get any credit for that? Any kudos? No.

John DeCastro (13:04)

No. No, in the

end, and I'm fine with that. You know, in the end it was a a really collaborative effort. And sometimes, you know, years later, people would be talking and someone might remember. Yeah, John raised his hand in that meeting. Do you remember he said that? It was it was never really about that for me. I mean, at that point, being a part of the team and sharing that success was more important.

Anthony Codispoti (13:27)

Yeah. Okay, so let's go the other way now. Let's talk about a product that didn't quite hit the way you expected. Give us an idea of how much it was off the mark and why you think it missed.

Lessons from a Failed Venture

John DeCastro (13:38)

Yeah, well, I'm gonna jump away from the Coleman Company and I'm gonna talk about a company I started. I I uh started a company called Cool Hand Luke back in the early two thousands. And while my wife and I were pregnant with our son, he she was going to sleep at seven thirty at night and I still had a lot of juice left. And so I started playing a lot of poker.

And uh, you know, online poker was a big deal back then. And I was also a bit of a rounder with local games and I'd go around and find uh poker games. And so I had this idea for a piece of software that would help people run a home game with poker. Uh software like this existed for casinos and big places where I had been and played in some

larger tournaments and uh then you had online poker where people could play virtually. But for the guys who were hosting games with neighbors, there wasn't really anything there. And so I had this idea and we put together a piece of software. And through uh some interesting connections that are a whole different story for a whole different podcast at some point, I got introduced to the Maloof brothers out of Las Vegas.

They owned the Palms Casino, they own the Sacramento Kings, Arco Serena, uh, and they're a pretty big group, and they ended up funding this effort for us to go and build a piece of software that would help guys run their home game. And we were a little bit ahead of our time because the idea was that the software would be online based. And in 2004, you know, an online-based

ad revenue uh business model wasn't really prevalent, but that's what we wanted to do. And uh it also so happened that along that time the US government sort of changed their gaming laws on online poker and how that worked. So you had groups like Party Poker and Poker Stars who were s taking a small rake from every pot that was played and they could no longer do that because it violated gaming laws. Well

What we decided to do was try to force fit our idea and wind it back from an online version to a CD ROM that we would sell through retail. And it was

Anthony Codispoti (16:08)

Real

real quick, John, before you get further into the story and how uh it evolved, explain to me why if I'm running a poker game at my home, I need a piece of software to help me run it. What it what exactly is that doing?

John DeCastro (16:22)

Yeah, so it there were a few different facets to it. The most obvious and what casinos do is they'll have uh blinds clock. So if you're playing a game like Texas Hold'em where the blinds increase, um usually that's based on time and the clock would help you manage that. But for guys running a home game, the challenges that they find is uh, you know, getting players for one.

And so we had a sort of address book and a method that would go and invite people to come over to play to make sure that you had full tables. But then there's also the added thing of, all right, if I'm having people over, if do I want to have pizza there and how many slices of pizza do I need and how many beverages? And so we were actually meeting with major brands. Instead of pizza, it was gonna be Pizza Hut pizza.

You know, uh we were gonna work with uh them also on Wings, which was coming up at that point in time. And PepsiCo was largely involved and Diaggio, which was an alcohol distributor, was largely involved. So that was the sort of help that the software would would give you. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (17:34)

Fascinating. So you were

gonna do it as an online version, which made a lot of sense because the internet was alive and well in two thousand four, but then the government changed rules and so you thought an online approach would be dangerous or just downright illegal. And so you're like, Okay, maybe we'll step back in time and use the C D ROM approach.

John DeCastro (17:55)

Yeah, it sort of fell into this gray area. Because the Maloof brothers owned the Palms Casino, they could do nothing and would I mean I understand this completely, didn't want to do anything that might put their Nevada gaming license at risk. And so they just decided at that point in time we really shouldn't do this at all. And me being thinking that I was being resourceful, I was really just being stubborn.

And said, well, let's put it on a CD-ROM and try to sell it through retail. And it was an utter disaster. We, you know, I was able, because of some connections I had, was able to get meetings. And I remember going into a meeting with Walmart. And my first meeting with them, they said, I didn't even make it back to the rooms, the meeting rooms that they have. I I was in the lobby, the buyer came out and met with me, and they basically said, Hey, it's interesting.

But we're not really interested in a one skew vendor. If you want to do a bid for poker tables and cards and card shufflers and everything and have a cool hand look or Palm's home poker host was what we were calling at that point. If you want to try to create that sort of statement, we'll listen to you. So I went back and uh had some uh sourcing partners. I got tables and card shufflers and all that.

And it was all go happening so fast that the samples that I brought in, I took to my next meeting with Walmart before I ever opened them. And I'm back in that room getting ready and I open up we had this little eight person tabletop that would sit on top of a card table and you unfold it. And you know, it had sp it was octagon shaped and had kind of uh space for all the players there.

And I pull that out of the box and I unfold it and I realized that the company I'd been working with did it so fast that they didn't let the ink dry. It was it was screen printed. And so when I opened it up, it was just a mess. But I'm already in the room. I mean, Anthony, I'm I'm thinking to myself, do I just run for it and get out of there? Uh

Anthony Codispoti (20:04)

Ha ha ha.

John DeCastro (20:06)

I stayed in and tried to explain my way away around it. Uh it was not at all accepted. Uh the company uh then uh

decided to just sort of give up.

Anthony Codispoti (20:19)

Okay. What did you learn about yourself through that process?

John DeCastro (20:23)

Yeah, I learned that my stubbornness uh can lead to catastrophe. I learned do things right. You know, doing things right is certainly less embarrassing and probably more successful, although I'll never get to go back and look at that, but probably more successful than doing things fast. And you know, there's speed has its place in business, but um but product integrity has a higher seat at that table.

Anthony Codispoti (20:52)

I you know, I'm gonna offer a slightly different perspective. I mean, I see how it worked out, but I love that you step up and you took the swing, right? Like you're like, okay, like this path didn't work out. Cause so many businesses, this is how they unfold, right? You go one direction, you think that's gonna and the door closes. And and

John DeCastro (21:11)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (21:11)

then what are you gonna do? Some people do, they just they pack it in like that's it. Some people are like, no, I'm gonna try something else and try something else and try something else until I find the thing that works.

So I understand that cool hand loot didn't ultimately work out and that's you know that's painful, that stinks. Um, but I tip my hat to you for like, no, I'm gonna keep giving this a try until, you know, all all options are exhausted.

John DeCastro (21:37)

Yeah, well I hey I appreciate that. And I think multiple things can be true, right? So the lesson there is, yeah, be comfortable pivoting, but then m don't let speed uh force you into making poor decisions. You know, make sure that you're diligent and uh and kind of work through it. So yeah, I I appreciate your uh your your say in that and uh I am proud of the fact that I

kind of tried to steer through that. You know, like we all have friends or have met people who sit in the bar and have these grand product ideas. And I am proud of the fact that I actually gave it a shot, you know. But I think one of the things I learned about myself through that whole process, in starting Cool Hand Luke, I was doing everything. I was not only in product development and trying to figure out a marketing angle, but also dealing with things like insurance and

agreements and a lot of legal stuff, which was a great learning experience. But I also learned that, you know, entrepreneurs are those guys who at any moment can flip on a different hat and go get it done. And, you know, I'm I'm uh okay confessing that I'm not really wired that way. I need people around me. Uh I'm good at stitching together all the functional areas so that we have a shared vision and know how to get things done.

But I'm not an expert nor do I aspire to be an expert in all of those areas. And so I guess uh you know that makes me an entrepreneur as opposed to an entrepreneur.

Revolutionizing Golf Technology

Anthony Codispoti (23:15)

Well,

good to understand what your lane is, right? So

John DeCastro (23:17)

Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (23:19)

let's talk about Bushnell Outdoor Products. you did a couple of stints there. First one in 2004. uh Umno binoculars, riflescopes, sport optics. And you came in right as the company decided to expand in what they called outdoor technologies, things like handheld GPS and laser rangefinders.

What did building a brand new product line like that at a company that had never made anything like before, what was that like for you?

John DeCastro (23:52)

Well, I I I tell you it was uh first off flattering because I was uh working uh for the Coleman Company and one of the people that I had worked with at the Coleman Company had become the head of sales for Bushnell. And he called me out of the blue and said, Hey, we were talking about we're starting this division and they want a guy who's not afraid to kind of roll the dice and go into that, you know, murky place of that unknown.

And uh, you know, would I come over and join them? And I'll tell you it was certainly flattering, but really exciting to, I mean, that's uh we're all wired a little differently, and that's really what I love. I I love being in an atmosphere where we're intent on creating something new and challenging the norms. And uh and that's what we were gonna do. And I'll tell you, I was really excited about it. Um, the only I was there a very short time, the first go around.

And the only reason was I had this idea for Cool Han Luke and uh and this and when I met them aloofs and they were willing to back it, they basically said to me, You need to make a commitment to this. And so I did. But uh was really excited about what I was doing at Bushnell and was excited to go back. And so when I had the chance to go back years later, it was kind of the same deal, as a matter of fact.

The guy who had hired me at Bushnell, I ran into him one morning at the gym that we both went to. And I would see him periodically. So it wasn't like just out of the blue. But I go to catch up with Phil and we're sitting there talking, and he mentions that uh they were looking for someone to come in and lead their golf division. And he knew I was a golfer. And he and I had had a great experience way back when. And I don't think he had in mind.

offering me a job at that point. I think we were just chatting. But uh it really worked out. And what I loved about that opportunity was when I went into to Bushnell at that point, the golf division was intent on being the innovation leader in that space and bringing new technology into that space. And and we did that. And I and I'll tell you they followed through on their commitment there. So

That's what got me excited. And in fact, I'll tell you, Anthony, an interesting story here. In that interview process, they asked me just sort of an off-the-cuff question of what do you think is something that might be missing in golf technology? And I gave them this idea of a Bluetooth speaker that would have GPS built into it.

Because as a golfer, I was seeing more and more people bring speakers to the golf course. I was someone who was playing with a speaker, but I still also had uh a GPS giving me distances. And I'm like, I don't need all those devices. Well, you know, Bushnell ends up launching the Wingman speaker, which is the first uh speaker with GPS built into it for golfers. It ends up becoming an entire industry. There are dozens of competitors in that space now.

Uh and it's a category that represents hundreds of millions of dollars. So funny how things work out that way.

Anthony Codispoti (27:15)

Did you get a tip of the hat for that? Is there any footnote that the idea came from John DeCastro?

John DeCastro (27:22)

Yeah, I think I think everyone at you know, Bushnell's now under new leadership, uh a whole different team. But everyone who was around back there, we all talk about uh, you know, how that started and where that came from.

Anthony Codispoti (27:35)

So when you came back in uh twenty seventeen, this time you're executive director of global products, and talk to me about you said they were intent on being the leader in the golf technology space. Is that the position that they held at the time or was there work to do to get there?

John DeCastro (27:56)

Yeah, the a little bit of both. And they kind of held that position because Bushnell was the first brand to come up with a laser range finder for golf. Um they had created the laser range finder for hunting, and they were thinking about before I got there, they were thinking about other adjacent sort of use cases for a laser range finder. And hey, you need to know how far you are from a flag or a bunker or a or a bend in the fairway. Uh

Lasers are a great tool for that. They can be very precise if done right. And so they were largely looked at as the innovation leader because they were first. But the interesting thing is, the year before I started, Bushnell had introduced a laser called the V4, version 4, literally, but that's how they name everything. So I think they're up to V7 now, but they had launched V4 in 2016. And

V4 is now regarded, looking back, as probably the worst laser ever made by Bushnell. And when I asked the team why did we create V4? The answer was the goal was to reduce the product cost. Because they were getting pressure from new brands that were coming in that were all saying were like Bushnell but were less expensive. So

I uh at that point we got the team together, and that's when we said, hey, look, uh, if we decide to go this route and fight on brand, not only do we lose everything, but we open up in the market an opportunity for someone else to come beat us. So let's not try to be all things to all people. Let's assume the role that we'd been given by default because we were first as the innovation leader, and let's go drive innovation in this marketplace.

And we did that. We brought new features before anybody else to laser rangefinders. We were the first laser rangefinder to integrate a magnet and put it so that you could hook it to the cart bar. Well, today you won't find a laser rangefinder that doesn't have a magnet. I'm still upset with the US patent office for not letting us uh protect that. They said it was an obvious invention. I disagree. And look at the results. I mean, now everybody has that feature.

Anthony Codispoti (30:20)

Now it's obvious.

John DeCastro (30:21)

Yeah,

right. but anyway, um we made that pivot. We made that pivot to become the innovation leader, uh, even though we kind of had that position before. It was a it was a cognitive decision.

Anthony Codispoti (30:38)

Stay up market. You know, embrace

John DeCastro (30:39)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (30:40)

the high quality, the high reliability product that you guys were known for in the marketplace. Yeah.

John DeCastro (30:46)

Yeah, absolutely. And it's

not an easy position to hold, you know, it takes investment, it takes risk. it's it's it's much easier to be a fast follower, uh, you know, and I'm not saying it's easy, uh, but it it is easier. And so uh kudos to the leadership team at the time for believing in us and accepting that position. And then we followed through. I mean, Bushnell at that period when I started, uh, we were doing about, you know, 60 million in revenue.

we more than doubled that in my time and we acquired Foresight Sports, which doubled it once again. It became, you know, a a company much up north of two hundred million uh, you know, during my stay.

Anthony Codispoti (31:29)

So aside from that acquisition, what were you guys doing to grow the sales so much?

John DeCastro (31:35)

Yeah, so we did other product expansions like GPS Speaker. Um, we went much deeper into GPS. Bushnell at that point was laser rangefinders only. And then we were able to drive price point up to increase revenue through new innovation and through meaningful you know, features that uh that golfers were wanting and willing to pay for.

Anthony Codispoti (32:02)

How were you guys coming up with the ideas? Is it just the people that are in the room that happen to be golfers, like, I'd really like this thing? Or were you going back to focus groups and asking people out in the public what they actually wanted?

John DeCastro (32:15)

Yeah, I tell you, I mean, I think that's an important thing for all of us in consumer products is pay attention. The ideas could not just come from people in the room. I mean, we all fancy ourselves creative, you know. I like to think I have a good idea, but uh every now and again. But really it doesn't matter unless the market that you're serving kind of accepts that as an idea. So, you know, Bushnell had a great network of uh golfers.

Pros, coaches. Um, you know, Bushnell has held for two decades the position of the number one uh laser rangefinder on the PGA tour. Uh 98% is a real number that they can back up, that 98% of tour players, even to this day, are using Bushnell. And so we would talk to those players and those caddies, but then we would also talk to the guys who just, you know, are playing once a month at the Muni.

um and really understand, okay, the great thing about golf is it it's sort of a cascading industry. You know, we don't need to play titleist golf balls, but we do because the guys we watch on Sunday are playing titleess golf balls. So there's a certain element of that. And so Bushnell as the innovation leader always wanted to develop product for the people on tour, the guys making a living doing this. But then we also had to make it accessible, right, for the guys playing on just every other week. And so uh

Yeah, we spent a lot of time uh talking to a a vast network of users.

Anthony Codispoti (33:49)

How did you do that? Like how was that formally organized? Did you have a mailing list that you're sending out a questionnaire to? Like I wanna understand the mechanics of that. Because in my experience, and and I did physical products for a number of years, the best ideas always came from solving a problem that everybody had, and nobody had figured out the solution.

John DeCastro (34:10)

Yeah, I think that's dead on. And and a lot of times it comes from, you know, one of my learnings in all of this was learn how to have conversations with consumers and not just ask very directed questions because you end up you end up sort of steering people to your ideas if you do it that way. And so we had panels. So we had panels that we would get together and you know.

Go play golf with coaches or caddies or uh you know, just go play golf with uh, you know, everyday Joes and be paying attention that whole time.

There were aspects of it that were pretty formalized with boards and stuff. And then there were other aspects of it where, you know, I had hired some really good product managers who were also avid golfers. And they would, you know, in their regular game, would just go out and pay attention to whoever they got paired with.

Anthony Codispoti (35:08)

Okay, let's jump to what you're doing now. Uh

Transitioning to Mileseey Technology

John DeCastro (35:11)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (35:12)

earlier this year, March of 2026, you moved to take over the entire North American business for mild C technology. So the Chinese manufacturer, laser measuring tools, thermal imagers, night vision, golf optics, uh 270 patents, 10 million users. What were you seeing here that took you?

From what you were doing before, head of golf at Mizin in Maine said, Okay, this is where I actually want to put my energy.

John DeCastro (35:40)

Yeah, you know, uh so I I was found uh by a by a headhunter and at first my first reaction when I heard I hadn't heard of Mileseey and uh my first reaction was you know there are dozens of cheap knockoffs, you know, coming out of the manufacturing hub of the world, and uh that's not what I am or what I get excited about.

But as I met their founder and president, uh I I learned his passion for innovation. And Mileseey C had started back in 2009 as an OEM manufacturer and had worked with some really big brands, particularly in digital measurement, uh brands like Milwaukee and Ryobi, and making digital meters for them. And then uh what

They decided is they had this vast RD and engineering team, and they discovered that they were bringing more ideas to their clients than their clients were bringing to them. You know, they would have a meeting and they said, Hey, did you know that you could do this and it would make the product better? And clients are like, Yeah, okay, great. Well, Mileseey then decided that they were going to try to make a brand for themselves.

So I go and I look at the product and I see the innovation. I see on the tool side that Mileseey is the first to introduce a green beam laser because it's four times more viewable to the naked eye than red beam, which had been out there. And they make a statement that says, hey, this is a relatively simple fix. and it carries some cost to it, but it brings meaningful value to the users. So let's lean into that.

And they've been very successful with that so far. It is literally the best uh digital meter out there. And it's interesting when we go to independent studies, this is sort of a side note that you know uh the individual labs, uh the independent labs that that do these uh studies had been using a brand called Leica, which is a very high-end brand, um pretty expensive digital meter.

And the last two lasers that we've sent through the individual or the independent lab studies were outperforming the standard, which means we are now more accurate in our measurements than Leica, which is, you know, a very high, a pretty exclusive brand. So that sort of innovation intrigued me. And then I knew the golf space. And when I saw the things that they were doing there, um, you know, our lasers, we have a laser that

You can put into a green mode and it will read a putting distance in feet. No one else does that. We have uh a feature.

Anthony Codispoti (38:33)

Putting distance in

feet, what are what are other people doing in it?

John DeCastro (38:36)

Yeah, uh so other lasers won't measure those sh short distances and they give everything in yards or meters, which if you're putting isn't particularly helpful. Um and so uh being able to stand over the ball, shoot the hole, and see the distance, and not only see the distance, but be able to tell if it's on an incline or decline um is a level of precision that no one else has in the golf space. And that was fed to us from the tool space.

Right. So uh that's how the the businesses sort of help one another. And another feature that came into golf from the tool space is in tools we do point to point. So you can take a digital meter and you can measure the four corners of a room and it will automatically calculate square footage or volume or anything like that. Well, point to point in golf is say your cart path only, and you can shoot your ball.

And then shoot the flag and it will give you that distance as and uh now all of a sudden you're saving time and getting an accurate distance uh when you're not even by your ball. You the method that you have to use before this technology is you take three or four clubs with you and you walk across the fairway and then you shoot your laser and you get your distance and you select your club. Well, now you don't have to do that with with Mileseey.

Anthony Codispoti (40:01)

So give me an idea of the timeline here. H when was it that Mileseey said, hey, we want to go from just being a manufacturer for other people to forming our own brand? Because I've seen a lot of factories try to do this in the past and they don't understand the brand part of it. They don't understand what is involved in

the customer side of it, the customer facing part of it. So I'm curious where they are in that life cycle and how it's going so far.

John DeCastro (40:34)

you have no idea what a timely question that is, because when they they made the decision that they wanted to start to brand their own products in 2017. And they haven't done a lot with it. They are a digitally native brand selling through their own Amazon store and uh D2C, right? And this is a conversation that I have with them. Just in fact, I was out there uh in July.

And we just had this conversation because we're leading Mileseey through a transition that is uncomfortable to a lot of companies. You know, we've and what I tell them is every time I ask you to make a change now, it's not that you've done anything wrong. In fact, we're making these changes because you've done everything right. Because to your point, Anthony, a lot of companies jump out and

They're digitally native and they never able to cross over into an omnichannel sort of global brand. And Mileseey has earned the right because of their success as a direct-to-consumer brand to now make that transition. But it is a complete overhaul, you know. Uh, one of the things that Mileseey has really relied on is speed to market. And if you think about it, uh

When you're digitally native, as soon as you get the green light from manufacturing and you've gone through all of your testing and you're ready to roll off an assembly line, you put it online and you start selling. Well, one of the things that we're having a tough time getting used to right now is as we start to work with retail partners, we need to have working samples six months before our go-to-market live date because we have to be able to sell it.

And then we have to be able to forecast it and get, you know, load quantities. And then we have to produce it and ship it. And you just you line all that out and it takes time, right? Well, that's hard for a company to understand. And it's even harder for a company to withstand if you're not prepared. Because just think about, you know, at the heart of every business, and your listeners know this, cash flow is key.

And when you get into consumer products, you have long lead time components and you're laying out cash. And then you have to turn that into a finished good and you're laying out cash. And then in our case, you got to ship it over to the US, and that takes 45 days, and you're laying out cash. And then you're given terms to these leisure these retailers that you're working with. And so your your float for that cash flow is enormous, right? So it was a massive change. And I think your experience is dead on here. Like

A lot of companies will die on the vine trying to make this conversion from a you know, again, digitally native D2C kind of brand to a true omni-channel global brand. And so my experience is much like yours. I understood these challenges. We've been able to talk through it, but we're in the throes of it right now. You know, we we are uh dealing with it right now, um, but that's the transition that we're in the middle of.

Anthony Codispoti (43:48)

Are the retailers receptive? Do they like what you guys are putting in front of them? The big box retailers?

John DeCastro (43:56)

Man, I gotta tell you, it's it's a little bit of just right place, right time, a little bit of experience, and a little bit of dumb luck kind of you know, all coming together here. So we've got great product, and the team that I've started to hire here in the US actually comes from a lot of our competitors, some of them that we've named here today. And uh, and so we had a lot of great contacts on the golf side. And

We in the first three months of the company sort of be informed, we met with every major retailer. And uh, you know, again, retail is slow, but uh in 2027 we will be in every major retailer for golf. Uh setting in December, we have earned a in-store test with the Home Depot. And it's a pretty small test by their standard. Home Depot has 2,000 doors.

We're going to be in a hundred of them starting in December, but that's not insignificant to us. And so uh yeah, the retailers have been very receptive. And it's again, it's um, you know, the the best product doesn't always win. So I don't want to overemphasize the fact that Mileseey has true innovation and really fantastic products because that's important. But what's also important is the team that we've built here in the US understands how to work with retail and how to manage that.

profitably. And so you gotta have uh you know, you gotta be great retail partners with an understanding of how that works. And so we've been able to marry that up and yes, we're we're having great success with retail.

Anthony Codispoti (45:36)

You mentioned a Home Depot. Um, that's not a place that I would have normally thought about for uh golf product distribution.

John DeCastro (45:45)

Yeah, so that's tools. So the Home Depot right now, uh, they're gonna carry uh one of our digital meters. they're carrying a thermal imaging camera. It's a it's a that's a pretty specialized area thermal imaging is, but we have a very low-priced camera, the TR ten, that uh a typical homeowner could use. you know, for a hundred and twenty-nine bucks you could buy this and now

You have the ability to go and find out, do you really have drafty windows, or is that salesperson just trying to get you to upgrade? Uh, how much energy am I leaking through this door? And should I go buy a little, you know, door stop insulation thing? So uh things, you know, the you know, simple things like that. And then we have a category that I think is about to explode, digital tape measures. So it's a traditional tape measure.

But for high levels of accuracy, it will record the distance. It'll store, depending on the version you get, it might store dozens or even hundreds of measurements. So you don't have to write stuff down and remember it now. But if you get to a point where you don't have someone holding the other end of that tape or you're measuring up, which is always a problem, it has uh a digital meter on it as well. So you can just push a button and get that distance. I think digital tape measures are.

about to come into their own and Home Depot's gonna help us with that.

Anthony Codispoti (47:11)

So I wanna better understand the digital tape measure product line that you're talking about, why you think it's gonna explode. And you were saying something about the difference or the difficulty in trying to measure up and and the solution for that, and I didn't quite follow that. Walk me through that again, John.

John DeCastro (47:27)

sure. So I'll answer the second question first. So if you have a traditional tape measure and you're trying to measure something ceiling to floor, oftentimes that tape measure is just falling and you can't get that read and it's it's a it's a problem, right? So with a hybrid, a digital tape measure, it also has that laser. So now I can set it on the floor.

And I can it it knows how large it is, how tall it is. So it'll calculate floor to ceiling with a laser beam. And the reason that I think digital tape measures are ready to come into their own is if you think about the practical use of DIY and why a do-it-yourselfer is using a tape, usually they're hanging something.

They want to find the center of a wall. They want to see how tall a wall is. They want to see if a sofa is going to fit in that living room, right? And so you might be measuring larger spaces that might require two people. Well, you don't have to have two people if you have a digital meter. It will record it automatically. There are algorithms in there that again, if I'm measuring for a rug.

Or something. I can get square footage, you know, just by measuring the four corners of a room and it automatically calculates. Um, and so there are a lot of just practical uses for the DIYer. And for the more industrial user, um, if I'm measuring large distances, like I don't know if you've ever tried to use a hundred-foot tape measure that's on a reel, but it's cumbersome and it's not a one-man game,

Anthony Codispoti (49:09)

Okay.

John DeCastro (49:11)

you know. And so digital meters are instant.

Again, recording at a high level of accuracy those distances so you're not writing them all down. They're Bluetooth connected. So you can, you know, you could have a guy who's taking measurements in one area of a construction site and a guy who's cutting boards on the other, and you can send him that information in real time. Um they're just from practical use case scenarios, I think as people get more and more comfortable with that idea.

I think digital tape measures are really gonna come into their own.

Anthony Codispoti (49:46)

Now I you've made me inspired. I want to go to Amazon and look for a digital tape measure now. Um

John DeCastro (49:51)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (49:52)

are these they have a combination of sort of the old style tape and the the laser component of it or or

John DeCastro (50:00)

That's correct. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (50:01)

l why would you even want the old traditional style tape if the laser is so much better?

John DeCastro (50:08)

Yeah, I think some people are still kind of comfortable with that that traditional tape, especially, you know, if I'm a if I'm a crafts person and I'm cutting boards or something like that, I might just have my process that's a little zen for me, you know, in marking the board and everything. So I think we're gonna migrate consumers to that space and you know, they might still like tape.

and and feel comfortable with it, and then slowly let them be able to use lasers. And so I think this hybrid has a place at this point in time.

Anthony Codispoti (50:39)

Gotcha. This is just to get folks sort of through that bridge. Right.

John DeCastro (50:43)

Sure.

Anthony Codispoti (50:44)

We're all used to the old fashioned way of doing it. So let's not make the change too sudden. And I'm wondering where I can go and I can find these things. And, you know, you guys are gonna be in Home Depot now or coming up? When when does this hit?

John DeCastro (50:57)

So we're available on Home Depot and Lowe's dot com right now, and we will be in store. They're setting us in December. So we'll be in store in December uh at the Home Depot. And that might seem like a weird time. That was Home Depot's timing because they'll be having their crews going in in in late December, taking down holiday and resetting. And so that's when we'll get set.

Anthony Codispoti (51:21)

Okay, fun stuff. And I can see you on Amazon here as well. Tons

John DeCastro (51:25)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (51:26)

of products. Okay. fun stuff. More fun stuff. Um, you guys partnered with Magic Plan. You

John DeCastro (51:33)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (51:34)

launched a co-branded starter kit at $199.99. Who's Magic Plan? What's the starter kit? Tell us about the partnership.

John DeCastro (51:44)

Yeah, well, what a great partnership it is too. And so Magic Plan is a very popular application, mobile app that is used by designers, realtors, architects. and what it does is let's say I'm a realtor and I'm gonna stage a room for a showing. And I can go in, I can measure that room, I can go look at my uh my

Bullpen of sofas and chairs, and figure out what I want to move in at that point. So with our product, you take all the measurements.

And then with Magic Plan and the Magic Plan app, it creates that virtual room. So now I can play around with things before I actually move them in. I can figure out where everything's gonna go. I can figure out which picture is gonna fit best on that wall and what couch is gonna fit best in that room and how to stage it all. And so Magic Plan or Magic App makes it really easy for again.

architects, designers, realtors to sort of lay out a plan before they actually start the work. And so uh it's a great application for us uh and we found that a lot of users of digital meters are using uh apps like uh the Magic Plan app and so uh you know I I think a really great strategic partnership for us.

Anthony Codispoti (53:14)

How did that partnership unfold? Who approached who? How did the first conversations go?

John DeCastro (53:20)

Yeah, so we uh we approached them and just we were kind of asking a little bit about, you know, if they had any other strategic alliances this uh you know with this sort of deal. We wanted to really ask them questions about their user base and were we understanding it right, you know, or were we just assuming. So through those conversations, uh we saw that there were great synergies.

It helps them get their brand out there, but then they're also allowed to sell it direct to their members. So they really helped us launch this as well because they have their own member base and they could go out and market direct to them and let them know that they're partners with Mileseey and they could offer some savings then on Mileseey product.

Anthony Codispoti (54:08)

So you guys are, you know, in the places that you're playing and the expansions that you're planning, you're going up against a lot of well-established, big, well-known brands. And I know that you're really excited about the technology, the patents, the innovation that you guys bring to bear. What's the strategy for getting into the customers' hearts and minds? You've

John DeCastro (54:35)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (54:36)

done this before.

You've worked with a lot of brands, you've been down this road, you've got some kind of playbook in mind, I imagine.

John DeCastro (54:43)

Yeah yeah, we do. And you know size brings great advantages where you can go a little broader and uh w particularly with marketing. And so I think, you know, our strategy right now is to be very focused with our message and where we go. We know that it's going to be a slow burn. We know that we have very capable, well-established competitors out there. Um

But the nice thing is when you're kind of starting at ground zero, um you can be patient. You know, we uh we're making our investments uh, you know, very calculated so that we're not trying to get too big too fast. I you know, it it's a little counterintuitive for people who haven't lived through it before, but I know all of your listeners understand this. You can grow too fast. And uh so we're mapping out that plan.

And again, it's a very systematic growth plan with very targeted marketing efforts and very targeted product efforts too. We have uh I'll tell you one of the advantages that Mileseey has is we have an enormous R and D team and a very capable engineering team. And for those who don't know, you know, Shenzhen is now considered the technology epicenter of the world.

That is where a lot of tech is sort that's driving the world is is sort of happening. And so that location is advantageous for us right now. And so we have resources that uh that a lot of our competitors, regardless of size, may not have. But at the same time, we've got to be patient in how we leverage that. So we have a product roadmap that is taken us out quite a few years. We're staging it almost like uh, you know, I I

I don't know this for a fact, Anthony, and you might even know more about this than I do, but I heard a story once about Pixar having a meeting, and in this meeting, uh Finding Nemo, Toy Story, uh Wally, there were like four movies that all came out of this one afternoon brainstorm session.

And Pixar had to make a decision of a launch strategy and how they were going to line those up. Knowing that consumers or people only went and saw so many movies at a time, and you and and you had limited marketing budgets and you had to be, they figured out that you had to be very intentional about when and how you were going to launch those. Now, I don't know where I heard that story, and I don't really know if it's true, but

Uh, if it is, we're taking the same approach and we're looking at, okay, we have ideas that might break us into new product categories and new markets that we're sitting on right now because we know we have to get these other things out of the way first. And we know that we also have to establish these relationships and prove ourselves as great partners for our big box retail. And uh they're not just gonna jump in bed with us with all of these product categories right off the bat. So

We're taking that very uh sort of systematic approach right now.

Anthony Codispoti (58:05)

That is so hard as a company, as

John DeCastro (58:07)

Ha.

Anthony Codispoti (58:07)

a brand, as an innovator to do when you've got a stack of these ideas, you're like, the market is ripe for these, it solves a problem, it fills a gap, and we feel like we need to sit on it.

John DeCastro (58:20)

Yeah. And I tell you, not every you know, this is an advantage of a smaller brand. If you know, I've worked for publicly traded companies and if you have a board you're reporting to, you don't have the luxury to sit back on revenue opportunities. You've got to make them all happen. And so, uh, you know, it's it's a little bit I I don't know that a lot of startup brands see it this way, but a small size can be a blessing in some ways. You can be more nimble and you can be more patient, and we're leveraging that right now.

Anthony Codispoti (58:50)

Some of the best lessons in life, John, come through some of the hardest things that we go through. What is one of the hardest things that you've had to go through and what did it teach you?

John DeCastro (59:01)

Yeah. Well, I'll tell you here recently, I I uh had been with Golf Tech and you know, prior to that, Bushnell Golf, and had had a seat at a table uh, you know, where you're in the private meetings and the for the inner workings of a company and you kind of know what they're up to. And I was also going through uh a period in my life where I was trying to figure out

You know, where where I sat with my soul, like, am I a good person? Am I doing the right thing? Am I doing things that matter? And I decided, you know, where I really belong is non-profit. I I really need to go help people. And so I left Golf Tech and decided that I was just gonna figure out how to make my way.

In some sort of charitable venue. And I was really inspired by uh poverty and trying to make a difference with poverty. And uh I get out into that world and I find out that I know nothing and it's not enough about your heart. And I think I was struggling a lot with, hey, you know, uh

Am I doing what God wants me to do? And I I kind of made up my own answers, to be honest with you. I kind of I kind of decided, no, this is what good people should do. And through a lot of self-realization, what I realized was uh I'm built for consumer products. Whether people make judgments about whether that's a good thing or not, you know, that's fine. I'm built for consumer products. But

What I was doing, the way I was living my life before, is I had my work relationships, I had my faith-built relationships with prayer groups and and Bible study groups that I would go to, and I had my family relationships. And if they all met at my funeral someday, they would all have different interpretations of who John DeCastro is. And it was that uh that

dissension within my own life that was kind of leading me astray. And so when I had the opportunity here to to join uh Mileseey and start this, I made the decision that there's gonna be one John DeCastro.

And I'm not gonna go to work every day and force my beliefs on people and try to create a lot of converts, but I also want people to know what I love and believe in. And I'm gonna be overt about what I believe. And my family's gonna be around. And I want people to know my wife and my son, and I want my wife and son to know them. And I don't want it to be a situation where if someone's passing each other, you know, in the middle of a

shopping center or something that they don't pass and say, I think that was John DeCastro's wife Amy. And I want them to be like, hey, there's Amy, you know? And when we show up at the Christmas party, I don't want it to be like people are meeting for the first time. I want them to know each other. And I'm not forcing friendships here. It's just about living my life without those barriers. You know, I mean, I don't mean to get on a rant here and I won't. I promise. But we live in a world today where

People talk a lot about boundaries and people earn the right to earn your story is a famous Brene Brown kind of saying. And look, I think that's all right in context, but when you start going into finding hard lines for the way you live your life with these boundaries, I don't think it's gonna get you what you want. At least it certainly hasn't gotten me what I wanted.

So I kind of redefined myself here and it wasn't easy and it takes a whole lot of humility and um but that's maybe I'm still going through that transition, but that's what I've kind of accepted.

Anthony Codispoti (1:03:11)

Where do you think the idea of the walls came from? I mean, those had to have gotten erected at some point.

John DeCastro (1:03:18)

Yeah. I just think it's uh I think it's fear. I think, hey, I'm I'm walking through the office and I want to impress everybody and I've got this image of what that means and so I'm a character acting that out a little bit. And that means that I've gotta be uh, you know, focused and committed to work and I can't have objectives outside of that and no one's gonna understand, you know, and you know, you tell yourself these lies, but hey, um

Trust people. And if you find there are people you can't trust, maybe find new people. But uh but trust people.

Anthony Codispoti (1:03:56)

I love it. John, before I ask my last question, I'm going to do three quick things for the audience. First of all, if you want to learn more about what John DeCastro is doing there at Miley C, we've got three websites for you. And first of all, I'm going to tell you how to spell Miley C. It's M-I-L-S-E-E-Y. So Mileseey C with a Y on the end. So mileseeygolf.com, Mileseey C. Go ahead.

John DeCastro (1:04:19)

A and Anthony, sorry, Mile

I L E S E E Y.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:25)

Did I li leave out the E?

John DeCastro (1:04:27)

You did? Yeah, that's okay. Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:29)

So it's the word mile. Everybody knows how to spell mile except me. M-I-L

E, the word C and then, you know, S-E-E, and then Y on the end of it. Don't listen to me. Look at the show notes, folks. mileseeygolf.com,

John DeCastro (1:04:41)

Ha ha ha.

Anthony Codispoti (1:04:43)

mileseeytools.com, mileseeyoptics.com, M-I-L-E, S-E-E-Y. Miley. Okay. Also, if you're enjoying the show today, please take a moment to subscribe wherever you're listening.

It sends a signal that helps others discover our show. So thanks for taking a quick moment to do that. And as a reminder, you can finally get your employees access to therapists, doctors, and prescription meds that counterintuitively actually increases your company's net profit starting in the very first month. No co-pays, no deductibles, a lot of part-timers qualify too. So learn more about how to have happier employees and a stronger bottom line with this Bain Capital Insurance product.

at AddBackBenefits.com. Okay, John, so last question for you. As you think about the work that you're doing now, what is it that you most want to be remembered for?

John DeCastro (1:05:36)

Ah. Well, with regard to the work, I really hope that we're a company that people come to know as an innovator who's not afraid to not just leverage technology and not for the sake of technology, but to bring real difference in in the users and make it easy, you know, I mean

Technology in some circles can be a dirty word, it's intimidating, it's cumbersome, it's complicated. Uh if we do it right, we'll avoid all of those adjectives.

Anthony Codispoti (1:06:10)

I love it. John DeCastro from Mileseey C, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. I really appreciate you being here. Hey

John DeCastro (1:06:18)

Thank you so much.

Anthony Codispoti (1:06:20)

folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories podcast. Thanks for learning with us. And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.

Connect with John DeCastro:

Website: mileseeygolf.com

Website: mileseeytools.com

Website: mileseeyoptics.com