Grant Johnson's Closing Ratio Dropped From 87% to 45% During Insurance's Perfect Storm

Anthony Codispoti (00:00)

Welcome to another edition of the Inspired Stories Podcast, where leaders share their experiences so we can learn from their successes and be inspired by how they've overcome adversity. As you listen today, let one idea shape what you do next. My name is Anthony Cotus Bode, and today's guest earned a master's degree in marriage and family therapy. Trained to help people navigate their most personal struggles and then build his career in insurance. It's not a very obvious path.

But the connection between the two runs deeper than you might think. After entering the insurance industry in twenty fifteen, he struck out on his own, three years later to build something independent, locally owned, and deliberately different from the captive agency model. That bet has grown him into a recognized name in Oklahoma City. His name is Grant Johnson, and he's the founder and principal of Varde Insurance Group.

An independent agency based in Edmond, Oklahoma. Varde compares coverages across multiple carriers for everything from homes and autos to trucking, builder's risk, and workers' comp. In 2026, the agency was named a top five finalist for best insurance agency in Oklahoma City. But before we get into all that good stuff, today's episode is brought to you by my company, Ad Back Benefits Agency. And if you're in the insurance business, this is for you.

See, there's a program backed by Bain Capital Insurance that gives a company's employees unlimited access to doctors, therapists, and prescriptions. No co-pays, no deductibles. It works alongside whatever health coverage they already have. And it even covers part-timers who don't qualify for major medical. And here's the part that matters to you. This isn't a cost to your clients, it's a profit gain. See, the unique structure of this plan recently helped the client add $900 per employee per year to their bottom line.

That's real cash freedom. Budget they can move toward the umbrella policy, the key person coverage, or the higher limits you've already been discussing. Now, results vary, but that's real money on the table, and you're the one who can hand it to them. See if your clients qualify and how you can benefit as well at adbackbenefits.com. All right, back to our guest today, the founder of Varday Insurance Group, Grant Johnson. Thanks for making the time to share your story today.

Grant Johnson (02:23)

Hey, it's great to be here today. Thanks for having me.

Anthony Codispoti (02:26)

Okay, so Grant, you studied psychology as an undergrad and went on to get a master's in marriage and family therapy from Southern Nazarene University. Before we talk about how that eventually got you into insurance, tell me what drew you into this field initially.

Grant Johnson (02:45)

Man, I just I've always just been a lover of people. it was probably my senior year in high school. I took a psychology class and really just enjoyed the aspect of of learning about people, what makes them tick. you know, you learn all these fascinating things about you know, psychology, training, you know, just

fun stuff about people, Pavlovian things, you know, as an intro in high school class. And it always just stuck out to be of something that is is fun to learn about. And I I think if I if I was to pinpoint or look back further like why psychology, I'm actually an identical twin. I have a twin brother. and it it's just it was always kind of fascinating to to be

involved in personalities, involved in knowing why people are how who they are, why they are. obviously my brother and I are very similar. We look a lot alike. Most people mistake us for each other. and he actually works with me at the agency too, which is fun. but but it's it was one of those things where I think I I just was always fascinating with people, with you know,

How people are wired and what makes people tick, and comparing that to somebody who's very much like me, but also very different.

Anthony Codispoti (04:17)

Is it's kind of the nature versus nurture conversation that comes up a lot. As you think about

Grant Johnson (04:21)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (04:21)

you and your identical twin brother, what are some of the big differences in personality?

Grant Johnson (04:26)

Yeah, I I'd say a couple things that come out is

I'm probably more laid back. my brother is is less laid back. We're we're kind of yin and yang in that sense. but what's funny is I don't know how he got it or where he got it. My my family always jokes that he got the tech gene and I did not. I I'm very much likened to a a very old man who can't seem to turn a computer on without help. but my brother, when he was about 10 years old, took apart a TV that was broken, was able

able to fix it somehow. And so he has all the tech genes and kind of engineer brain. I don't know if this this actually does have some psychology behind it, but he's actually left-handed and I'm right-handed. So we're what's called mirror twins. But we have little differences of personality there, but you know we we still are best friends, have always been, but very different in some ways.

Anthony Codispoti (05:23)

Sorry, I gotta do l a little divergence here. I know this isn't what we came to talk about, but I didn't know that that was a thing. Like a mirror twins, so one's left handed, one's right handed. Like how

do they

Grant Johnson (05:33)

Yep.

Anthony Codispoti (05:34)

account for that?

Grant Johnson (05:35)

Yep. I I honestly don't know. I again you talk about nature versus nurture. I don't know enough about the research behind it. I probably should, but it was I don't know if it's just a term that people call as, you know, one's left, one's right is their mirror or if there's actual, you know, science or psychology behind it. but but that's that's what it is.

Anthony Codispoti (05:57)

Well let's get back to you, Grant. So you get this degree, you get the training. Did you ever end up practicing in the field?

Grant Johnson (06:04)

I did, I did. obviously had practice beforehand, you have to have accumulated hours of of time in therapy. and then I was working towards my licensure and that was a two-year program, and I was about a year in, so I was about halfway done. and I chose the route of LMFT, licensed marital family therapist. but when about

About that time when I was halfway through, Oklahoma started having some interesting conversations about LMFTs and there was some buzz around problematic billing for insurance and things because the majority of therapists were LPCs. So not to bore you with the the things, but it was just one of those things where it's like, is this going to be a long term solution for me or not? I was also about to get married, so I had, you know, my

wife and future to consider. if it's something to get into. And I actually had my father-in-law tell me that you know I should look into insurance, that I was a great insurance, I would be a great insurance agent because I care about people. and I while I was in my master's program, I worked full-time at a nonprofit in foster care. and I did a lot of business development and recruitment. So I had some marketing experience and it's kind of who I am as kind of a marketer.

anyways, and so kind of just all fell together. and I interviewed several jobs, several things to do, and and insurance popped up and most insurance agents will say something like this, but I was the same and when I was considering insurance, I said, Who wants to do that? Nobody likes those people.

Anthony Codispoti (07:50)

Yeah.

Grant Johnson (07:51)

you know, they're such a negative stereotype. but got to interview several places and really fell in love with what

insurance can can provide and what the job looks like and how you can really connect with people but you're really helping people at the end of the day. If you're doing the right job, the right things, you're you're consulting insurance and you're able to help people mitigate risk and and

Then later on, my experience with the therapy world was very helpful because who what what happens when something bad happens to your home or vehicle? Who do you call? You call your insurance agent.

Anthony Codispoti (08:29)

So yeah,

yeah. So let's let's connect those dots in a second, but I'm gonna go back for just a moment and better understand what was falling apart in terms of the the family therapy space. Was there a concern that the designation that you were going for might go away, or was there just like a negative cloud around it that you didn't want to be associated with?

Grant Johnson (08:49)

Yeah.

It w it actually held dealt with the insurance billing in Oklahoma. There was talk that LMFTs were not going to be allowed to bill insurance or some of the major carriers. so in fact I had

person I worked under and I was going to work under full time who was an LMFT also. He owned a practice. And he got up and was like, Hey, I'm moving to the East Coast because they're more friendly to LMFTs and not sure what that's what's gonna happen here. So you know

gotta do what's best for myself, my family, my practice. So it all things like that happened. I think they've corrected that now and there were no issues, but it was there was talk about about that at the time and and it got pretty pretty scary for a very young therapist into the business.

Anthony Codispoti (09:41)

And so as

you look back now and seeing how it played out, is there any part of you that wishes that you had stayed on that track?

Grant Johnson (09:47)

There there actually is. I love the world of insurance. I love what I've been able to experience and and grow. but but a part of the entrepreneur that I've grown into does have that thought. It's like I wish I would have known at the time that I had what it took to to figure it out, you know, to stay with it, to do that. I I loved therapy, I love being a therapist and helping people. but but I do I do think I'm doing the right thing where I am now. And I did always have.

thought. once I get my agency up and running and you know tenure being able to to kind of step away I might go back to to doing some therapy on the side or pro bono or something like that because really once a therapist always a therapist for the most part and and I do miss that aspect a lot about sitting with people and and helping them in that way.

Anthony Codispoti (10:41)

interesting. Okay. And so there might be a time where you slide away from the insurance base just a little bit so that you can do either paid or maybe even some free work for folks.

Grant Johnson (10:50)

Yeah, absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (10:52)

So you really do love helping people. Is that because you said you fell in love with the insurance work pretty early. Was that the part of it that you fell in love with, or is there more to it?

Grant Johnson (11:02)

Absolutely. you know, like I said, I I enjoy marketing, I enjoy networking and business development. that's kind of how I'm

built as well, but but at the core, you're connecting with people, you're listening to people as an agent, an insurance. and what's what's fun is it's not over. You don't just sell somebody something and insurance and especially you know commercial insurance, home and auto insurance. we connect and sell, but we're also there to support in some of the most difficult times. It could be something as as hard as a billing issue or you know you're you're in a serious accident.

or your house burns down. and obviously we're here in Oklahoma. We have quite a few of of big issues that can occur here with weather, especially tornadoes. And so having

the availability to be there and some of the people's darkest times is what I fell in love with because not only can I help them on after the fact in that in that way, but what we're doing and setting up beforehand and preparing for that with adequate adequate coverage for people's insurance is is what I really enjoy.

Anthony Codispoti (12:17)

So okay, let's connect some of those dots again here, because I think when what you're talking about, like these disastrous situations, somebody's home, you know, a tornado or a fire is just wiped out, one of the hardest things that somebody is gonna go through. A traditional agent, I mean, it's still a human being, they're gonna connect with them, and I'm sorry, you know, we're gonna do what we can to help you. But what do you think your background in that family marriage counseling

is able to bring to the table in that exact situation that maybe a traditional agent doesn't have, I don't know, sort of that arrow in their quiver, so to speak.

Grant Johnson (12:53)

Yeah. I one one of the the biggest lessons I learned as a therapist is is

You know, the the value in therapy is sometimes just sitting with people in the moment, somewhat experiencing their thoughts and emotions with them. And that's one of the most powerful things in therapy. and so that really carries over with how I look at insurance and how I train my team to do the same thing. so whether it's something very in a sense minor of even just somebody maybe first time buying a home.

you know might be young couple or something and they're nervous about it. insurance scarism, of course we talked about the stereotypes and negative stereotypes of insurance people. But but you provide present a different perspective to people with the experience you're providing of hey I'm I'm here to to learn about you, to learn about your home, to learn about your needs and properly and adequately ensure those needs that if anything happened, you're going to be taken care of

Of, but through that process, same thing as a therapist. I'm going to be active listening on the phone. I'm not going to ask you five questions, hang up with you, and send you a quote, like the majority of insurance professionals do, unfortunately. We're going to sit there and get to know each other in as much detail as we can, as much detail as you like. I understand some people still just want to answer five questions and hang up with you. But sometimes we are on the phone for an hour.

hour or more with clients just talking about them, getting to know them, getting to know their history and background, and making that connection, building the trust, because at the end of the day, we can help with insurance, we can sell insurance, but what we're really doing is providing a valuable experience of that process of insurance.

Anthony Codispoti (14:48)

So, Grant, take me through the first three years that you're in insurance before you decide to go off and start your own agency. What are you learning about the industry? Tell me the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Grant Johnson (14:59)

Yeah. So I I started out as what they call a captive agent. I worked for one insurance company. I could only sell one brand. and it was a great experience. It was tremendous training, top notch training, top notch sales training.

You know, you you learned about, like you said, the good and the bad. I I didn't realize how broad insurance was. so many options and so many things about insurance. One of the craziest things is is that no insurance policies are the same. you can have the same insurance company, but it depends on how somebody writes the insurance or who writes it and what they add, what they don't add, or the amounts. in fact, when I started in insurance, I just purchased my first home a couple months before. And

I secured insurance elsewhere. I wasn't even an insurance agent, knew nothing about insurance. So I did what most people do is you know, shopped it among a couple of people, chose the cheapest, compared to what I thought or seemed right. And once I became an insurance agent and finally looked at my own policy that I had elsewhere prior to becoming an insurance agent, I was shocked and frankly disgusted that somebody would sell me a policy like that. If there was a fire tornado or something,

My wife and I would have been in a lot of hurt financially because there wasn't enough coverage. Of course, that's my fault. We chose the cheapest policy. but but I st I learned early there is, there is, there is.

Anthony Codispoti (16:24)

There's so much fine print that, you know, most people are like, I don't know, I

just assume that this is a commodity. Like home insurance is home insurance, so I just

Grant Johnson (16:30)

Yeah. And

Anthony Codispoti (16:33)

pick the cheapest one.

Grant Johnson (16:34)

exactly. And that's that's something a a massive

fact that I think most people don't realize is it's not all the same, and it's not just they're all the same and one's cheaper than the other. That's not how insurance works for the most part. And it really is most of the time you get what you pay for. so that was that was eye-opening. you know, you learn about the insurance industry as a whole. you know, you think of these billion-dollar companies and how they operate. there's there's a lot of of really good.

things that they're able to do with the community and and giving back and things but there's also you know sometimes it's it's it's frankly kind of alarming sometimes of how even the big companies and corporations and you see this across all industries but they just

don't always have all the answers. You know, they they might roll something out and it's a complete disaster. And even no matter how much money or or time they put into preparation or something. But you know if you look at that as a broader sector, that's kind of business in a in a sense, right? Even small business owners and small entrepreneurs or early entrepreneurs, you know, are kind of doing that too. You kind of figure out what works. You go with your your gut or or you try to figure something out how to

what's gonna work and what you think's gonna work.

Anthony Codispoti (17:59)

So take us back to the home insurance example there. What are some red flags that people should look for? Say you know, they haven't had a chance to talk to somebody like Grant Johnson that is gonna really take care of them, make sure that they're getting what they need. What are some things that individuals should know to look for themselves?

Grant Johnson (18:18)

And you know, we we serve Oklahoma, Texas, Arkansas, and Kansas, so we're kind of Midwest and and our policies are a little different than other states, obviously, especially with wind and hell damage and other things. But deductibles are probably one of the biggest things. people don't understand how deductibles work or or what the calculation means. for instance, years ago deductibles were primarily a thousand dollars for every deductible in in Oklahoma is and for example.

Couple years in ago, they started increasing that to one percent standard. And so you hear one percent, you think, that's a small number. that sounds good, let's go with that.

Anthony Codispoti (18:57)

One percent of what?

Grant Johnson (18:58)

Exactly. It's one percent of the dwelling amount, which is that coverage A. So if if your home is five hundred thousand to dollars to rebuild, then it's one percent of that number, which is five thousand.

example. but what people don't realize is if you have a two percent wind and held deductible, again, they don't know what that means and they think two percent is a small number, but now that is a ten thousand dollar deductible if you look at a five hundred thousand rebuild cost. So the higher the home rebuild, obviously the higher the deductible, but the way that the insurance industry has trended the last five years, the deductibles are increasing. And and in Oklahoma in the in the Central Americ or in the central

Of America right now, we're seeing a lot of carriers go to a two, three to five percent wind and hell deductible. Which if you consider what it's actually covering, wind and hell is gonna cover most of the time the roof and/or windows and gutters, things like that. If there's hell damage or wind. but but

That time you're pretty much paying for your entirety of your roof or the majority of it. So your deductible, what you're paying into it, is going to be paying for the roof. So people don't realize that the deductible is a thing sometimes that I think a lot of people don't understand or don't realize. Because that's going to be every time.

Your codes update, whether it's your neighborhood, your city, you're going to have to pay more to fix things in a different way. So, particularly like a roof, sometimes it's going to be an extra five to ten thousand dollars to update the codes on the roof, or if you're replacing plumbing or electrical in your home after a fire or tornado, and then people don't realize.

You're going to be out of pocket several thousands of dollars if you don't have that particular coverage, which is not added.

automatically on the policy. So so when people look at the main things, it might look like the dwelling amount, they look at maybe the deductibles and maybe personal property, because that kind of resonates with most people. They might compare that to another company and say, this one's a thousand dollars less, let's go with that one. But you don't realize how many coverages are are standard included in most companies, but others that you must add automatically or add after the fact. So

Anthony Codispoti (21:37)

And you know what strikes me about the the per what did you call it, percentage of dwelling amount for the deductible?

Grant Johnson (21:41)

Yes. Uh-huh.

Anthony Codispoti (21:44)

so if you talk to folks in the e-commerce world and they try to think about, okay, we're running a promotion, we're offering a discount. Do we want to reflect that discount as a percentage amount or a dollar amount? Well, they do the numbers and they're like, well, whichever number is higher because that seems like it has more value. And it seems like the insurance carriers are doing sort of the

the same thing, but in the opposite direction, whichever number is lower, you know, so one percent, well that's a really low number, especially compared to a thousand dollar deductible. And so like like you said, the the uninitiated, the uneducated folks that this isn't what they do every day, they look at that and they're like, that's minimal. Okay, great.

Grant Johnson (22:28)

Yep, absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (22:29)

So

you you're working in insurance for three years, working for a a captive agency, got a lot of great training, had a wonderful experience. What was it then that lit that fire under you to say, I wanna go start my own?

Grant Johnson (22:43)

Yeah. I think it was it within it it was kind of a interesting thing because within the great training that I was provided, you know, I said they they did a lot of sales training, which was great. There's a lot of sales techniques and things, especially related to insurance, but but I found it always kind of awkward for myself because

I'm not a hard salesperson. I'm not I'm not somebody who's gonna force somebody to do something they shouldn't do or f make them close faster or something. And you know, one of the things I was taught that sticks out is you know, focusing on, well, do you have your credit card ready? You know, so we can take care of that today or something. yeah, that's a close a fast close and things, but man, I just felt so uncomfortable doing it. And so what I had to realize is that I

Be a consultant over a salesperson. So making sure they understood what the insurance they had, making sure that they understood what they were going to pay if something happened, versus just selling the policy.

Make me realize like I wanted to do things a little different. I wanted to do things a better way. in the same note, we saw where I was working in a company that only had one insurance option. we started sending things to other people so I could help people. If somebody came to me and they're paying five thousand dollars a year for something and the best rate I had was six thousand, well, I can't help them, but I'd like to help them, so I would send them to somebody else like an independent agent. And I started noticing a trend where we sent more and more to

different people that we trusted in the independent world and eventually I was thinking well I I probably need to be in this world too because I can help more people and again at the end of the day as an independent agent I'm helping my clients I'm not helping I'm I'm providing them with the best option possible to my abilities versus providing them with one option if that makes sense so if you look later on with retention of clients as they renew I'd have

many clients where I started in insurance as a captive who they would call me after two years and say grant we love you a great agent but we can't afford this insurance or we looked around we found five other options that were way that are gonna save us money and we're gonna have to move away from you and so those things got kind of started leading me to thinking okay we've got to go into the independent world and and

I actually started for about a year and a half under another insurance broker. So I went to the independent world under another agency.

And just you know learn the ropes, figure things out there. you know how things happen sometimes, where things are promised, they're promised to the world and things don't happen. for instance, one of this independent broker actually changed the contract four times in one year for us agents. And so it wasn't really what I signed up at the very beginning. And so I realized I didn't have a lot of control. I didn't have you know.

availability to make a lot of decisions I thought I would. And so it just became apparent if I'm going to do insurance and be the agent that I want to be, I really have to do my own thing at the that point. And so that's what really drove me to start looking into starting my agency. And so the the great thing was is I was able to do you know a really good job for people, write really good business. And so all the carriers that I was working with, they they knew about me.

And they knew of me. They kind of knew that I was producing good businesses. You know, we weren't having cancellations left and right. We weren't having a lot of crazy claims or fraud happening. And so I was able to kind of slip in at the very right time to start getting the best contracts that I could and appointments with insurance companies and start my agency with a lot of great companies to help people with.

Anthony Codispoti (26:47)

So talk about that process of starting your own agency and needing to get that appointment. What does that look like?

Grant Johnson (26:53)

Yeah, it it's you know it's changed quite a bit the last 10 years, I'd say, with the changes in the insurance world. but

Quite honestly, you cannot, it's really hard to get an appointment with a company to sell insurance. So if I started insurance today, an agency, I might be able to immediately start working with maybe one to two companies. And and with those companies, the commission that they're gonna provide is very low. So it's a very hard start, it's a very slow start because insurance companies want to see that you have enough quoting activity daily, weekly, monthly.

That you're kind of worth it. And then they want to see what type of business you have. Are all your clients canceling? Are all your clients committing fraud? Are you committing fraud? So they really need to vet you. So it's one of those things, you know, how you you graduate from from college and you start interviewing for jobs, and all your jobs say, Well, we need seven years experience for this position. It's the same thing in insurance. They they want a lot of experience that is virtually impossible to have or to attain at that point. and so, but

But thankfully, like I said, I had enough tenure and experience and growth that the actual people who represented these carriers or insurance companies knew me personally and knew what I was capable of and how I did business. And so they were able to kind of make it work and provide me those appointments to be able to write business with their companies.

Anthony Codispoti (28:25)

So tell us about the name choice, Barde, V-A-R-D-E, Barde Insurance. Where where did

Grant Johnson (28:30)

Yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (28:30)

this come from?

Grant Johnson (28:31)

Yeah. It really stems from the idea concept that I

I like the idea of providing value to someone's insurance experience. And so I like the word value. I didn't think value was a very good term in English language to name an insurance agency. And so I honestly just Googled the word value in different languages to see what would pop up and looked through several, and I found the Swedish word varde that was V-A-R-D-E with an umla over the A. And I was thinking in my marketing brain, like, hey, that's kind of cool.

and that will look cool on things and and it kind of just stuck. So we started Varde Insurance Agency and and went with it.

Anthony Codispoti (29:14)

No Swedish heritage from you, just a cool word, okay.

Grant Johnson (29:16)

No, no, very little. We actually

did twenty threeandme years ago and it was it was minimal but not really significant not to even say. but just again like the term, like the the name. It is kind of funny being in Oklahoma calling your agency Varde and and having the colors of orange and white technically because people always say, Why is your Verde company not green like like Verde salsa or something? or we get the the natural Vard or something.

But it's close enough so it works.

Anthony Codispoti (29:49)

All right. Vardayinsurance.com. We'll recap that at the end, but vardayinsurance.com for people who want to check it out. So you get the appointments, which is a big deal. a little bit easier back then, certainly not a given though. But

Grant Johnson (30:02)

Absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (30:03)

how are you getting those first clients?

Grant Johnson (30:05)

Yeah. It it was the same thing, you know, you

As an insurance agent at this point, I had a couple years in and I was very well connected with the community, different networking events, and and then really, you know, I did a lot of I did only personal lines starting out in insurance. So I was doing home, auto, motorcycles, things, and then life insurance. I hadn't done commercial insurance yet. And so I really developed great relationships with great realtors and mortgage lenders who people were.

buying homes and they recommend me for insurance. and then I started just really focusing on work helping my clients and and taking good care of them that they'd recommend me because I think if you look at any statistic from any business, the highest

closing ratio, if you will, of any businesses from current clients, right? People know you, they experience it, they know what you can do or how you work, and they enjoy that process. They're going to refriend refer their friends and family and co-workers, and and those are really strong referrals versus.

buying leads that most insurance agencies do that have been called on a hundred times that week or something and hopefully you're you and they answer the phone for you and they give you a shot. never really wanted to do that so we really developed from the ground up really gross rats or gr grassroots rather efforts of of getting to know people and having recommendations and we still do that. And we've actually never purchased leads ever. And we work primarily on

Very little marketing, but really working on taking care of our clients and having them refer and recommend us in addition to our partners out in the community.

Anthony Codispoti (31:54)

So those partners out in the community, the real estate agents, the bankers, I'm sure that there's others, did those relationships when you started Var Day, were those already in place because of the work that you'd been doing? Already? Okay. And so

Grant Johnson (32:07)

Yes, yep, yeah, but absolutely.

Anthony Codispoti (32:10)

take us back to the beginning when you were stir first trying to start those relationships, first trying to get to know these people, have them refer to you, new guy in the industry, what are you doing?

Grant Johnson (32:21)

Absolutely, yeah. I I smile when I think about this because it was some of the funnest times. lots of big lessons learned there. I I decided to just go as hard as I can. It was kind of a shotgun method, but I wanted to reach out and meet every single person I could that could be an opportunity to re recommend, refer me as an insurance agent. it was hard because the first question is usually asked how long you've been in the business or how long you've been working.

and I have to say three months now, you know, and and every month, the first year especially I was getting more confident saying, it's been eight months now, you know. or it's a bit over a year now.

Anthony Codispoti (33:02)

I'm a seasoned veteran

now, yeah.

Grant Johnson (33:04)

Exactly.

but you know, you kinda learn to to to navigate that even even with that question of that possible objection, to turn it around and say, you know, hey, I'm not as veteran as as some insurance agents, but I'm I'm really here to take great care of you and I'd love to show you what I can do or something, you know, to to show them hey, it's really not about how long you I've been in it, it's really what I can do for you and the value I can provide for you. And I think that clicks with people. And so doing that and

And then I'd say, you know, this was 2015 when I started in insurance.

I was really good on LinkedIn. and LinkedIn was like my bread and butter for a long time. because at that moment in time there were a lot of people on LinkedIn, but it wasn't as like spammy and and crazy as it is today. but I would work on really thoughtful messages to send to people and and I would look for, you know, bankers, wealth advisors, realtors, mortgage lenders, roofers, anybody.

was in kind of the realm of insurance or touches insurance or refers insurance. and I was connected with anybody and everybody I could and I had really good

stats on turnaround for that. I mean, I think it was like four out of five people would most likely respond

Anthony Codispoti (34:25)

Well.

Grant Johnson (34:25)

and or meet up. And so I did a lot of coffees, did a lot of lunches. I tried to started I learned my lesson to do more coffees than lunches, 'cause I was paying out of pocket for those. and but but that's really th what really

was able to help me connect with and grow my my agency and my book, my clientele, my partners is just connecting with people like that. Obviously networking events and other things too are helpful. but it was really the a a shotgun approach turned into a little more, you know, you learn your lessons, you learn how to be quick and and

to sum it up what people want to hear. People really don't want to hear about insurance all the time. They just want to know what can you do for me or how are you going to help me? How are you going to be different than the other five guys who've knocked on my door today or whatever the case is. And so

Anthony Codispoti (35:17)

And so what were you saying to

them? When you're sending these LinkedIn messages, you're getting a roughly eighty percent positive reply rate, which is nuts. Like what are you saying to them? What

Grant Johnson (35:25)

Yeah.

Again, per personal touch, looking at LinkedIn, where are they from? What have they done in the past? What schools did they go to? you know, it's kind of a fun thing. Oklahoma is small enough that, you know, you you might know somebody, hey, I graduated my masters at SNU as well, or I attended my bachelor's at UCO, Go Broncos. you know, whatever the case is. maybe they they work with somebody or they knew somebody, so I'd make a connection there. Kind of things that the tips and tricks that everybody's doing now, I was kind of doing

then but then really providing hey this is what I do this is how I'm different you know I I I know for for a fact if you're a mortgage lender you're gonna want great rates and you're gonna want quick closes you know and and you're gonna want quick turnaround. If mortgage lender refers an insurance professional and it takes them a week to get them a a a quote back or or to bind that quote then they're not gonna work with them ever again because they need it quickly.

And especially at that time, the federal regulations started changing, and mortgage lenders were required to provide the proof of insurance, I believe, within three days of the closing. So, you know, knowing those things, I would say, hey, it I'm gonna get it to you within 24 hours or within two hours of a business day or whatever the case is to make sure that you're closing. And so, again, speaking their language and and letting them know exactly the value I'm gonna provide them.

them uniquely than other people don't or the issues they have is is a good thing and and usually it was just hey let's get get up to meet I'm not trying to s get a yes or no from you right now really love to take you to coffee and see if we're a good fit if we could work together and sometimes even add humor you know like see if you like me or not or whatever the case is

Anthony Codispoti (37:19)

Yeah.

Grant Johnson (37:20)

so and and I usually that's when I'd be able to do that and and build relationships with with people when I've met face to face.

Anthony Codispoti (37:28)

Grant, talk to me about how Varde has evolved its services over time. Started with these lines, now present day you have all of these lines.

Grant Johnson (37:38)

Yeah, yeah. started out honestly just doing home auto personal lines, home auto and life insurance. and we we've we're really good on on personal lines. It's kind of again what I've known from since the beginning. but I'd say in

2020 is when we started getting looking into more of commercial lines and and getting into the world. It's it's way different than personal lines. There's a lot of differences of it, of the time and issues of of knowledge that you have to know. it's a it's another animal, but it's also much more relational. And so that's been something fun to get into and to get better at because a home and auto, you know, it's a quick process.

It's a quick turnaround. Everybody's expected the quick turnaround, but

the you're in tr if somebody's entrusting you to ensure their business and their vehicles and their bonds and everything else as a business owner or a team at a business, you know, executive team or something, it's a slower process typically. It's a more it's a usually a a a longer vetting process, and much more relational in that way, that you're you're really getting to know people that

Building trust with them to see do they trust you and can you can you help them and adequately protect them with coverages?

Anthony Codispoti (39:09)

That transition from personal into both personal and commercial, was that a gradual thing where it was like, I started to have some clients who own businesses that were asking me for help there and that's what kind of nudged me, or it was like, no, this is a very big strategic move and one day we flipped the switch and now we're doing lots of commercial business.

Grant Johnson (39:29)

Yeah.

I it kind of a mixture of both. really just focused on on on personal lines and I would I would turn a lot of commercial away. but once we we opened the agency and was able to to have access to more commercial carriers and and things, it was was overnight, you know, maybe one day somebody asked, Hey, do you do commercial or I've got this business, can you help with that? And we we kind of turned it on and said, Yeah, we'll take a look at it and see. And so it was

you know, pretty quickly abruptly, it wasn't as strategic as it probably should have been. because it's it's a different learning curve. It's a lot of new nuances and new terminology compared to the personal lines for the most part. but but it was it was you know pretty quickly done and then be able to grow. And then as we grow, we started trying to

get more divested into different industries, you know, that we wanted to work with, that we knew we would be good at. there's some things you just we won't touch, we turn away, or we refer out that we know we're not really suited for this or we're not the expert at this. so that kind of became more strategic later when we were able to kind of narrow down and focus on on those types of specific industries that we are good at.

Anthony Codispoti (40:49)

So package it all up for me together here, Grant. What are the lines that you offer? Who is the right customer fit for you? And what are the geographies that you can do this set?

Grant Johnson (41:00)

Yeah. One of the fun things about being an independent broker and the a way we've structured our agency is we pretty much have the entire football field of insurance. So if if it's anything anything insurance related at all, if you if you own it, if you drive it, if you

Put gas in it, we can insure it. The only thing we don't do at the moment is health insurance. Health insurance is a completely different thing, and we've really focused on the PC side of insurance of home, auto, motorcycle, RVs, ATVs, life insurance, which is term, universal, whole life, and some other products, and then anything commercial where you own a business, you need general liability.

you need builder's risk, you need

workers comp, we we do all of that. So right now the term has been for the last seven years, we do everything except health insurance. But I will say that's that's in the view, that's in the vis vision of the next five years to to go into that world as well. because frankly it it is kind of I'm just getting tired of saying that and and we get a lot of clients naturally who you know

with our personal lines, it was a natural progression of saying somebody coming to us and say, Hey, you know, I own this business. Do you have my own auto? you help me with that. can you help me with my business? And we say, Yeah, we can. And so, you know, gradually going into those things. But similarly, everybody asks us now where it seems like more more people asking, Do you do health insurance? Do you you offer this? and we have to say no to that. And so just to be able to help and and do it all and be a one-stop shop

We have plans to to invest in that and and grow that.

Anthony Codispoti (42:55)

Makes

a lot of sense. You're already the trusted resource they're coming to for all of the other kinds of insurance that they want. And so you just want to be able to continue to service that customer.

Grant Johnson (43:05)

Absolutely, yeah.

Anthony Codispoti (43:07)

So I see you've published a a couple of articles, one called The Gift of Hospitality, another one called Where Will They Live? What were these about? What prompted you to write them?

Grant Johnson (43:18)

yeah, so gift to hospitality. It's so funny. I haven't seen that or heard of that in a long time. I think that might have been what 2015, 16, 17 maybe. but that was actually an experience I can remember very distinctly. I had clients come in and look at insurance and

I just did you know what I how I was raised to treat people and you know offered them something to drink when they came in to talk about insurance. I think they were talking about life insurance if remember. offered them beverages, made a pot of coffee for them, and and then just sat and talked with them. We talked about life insurance, but we talked about life and other things. And and after the the insurance appointment, the individual shook my hand and said, I really appreciate the hospitality. and and it just struck me, and I was like,

Like you know, very new insurance agent and never

you know, f had connected that at before that time that that's exactly what I'm doing is I'm providing a level of hospitality to people. obviously, you know, selling them insurance, yes, but through the process and the experience, it's it's a it's a level of hospitality that we're providing them comfort and making them feel known and safe and and and everything else that comes along with that.

Anthony Codispoti (44:41)

And how about the one called Where Will They Live?

Grant Johnson (44:44)

Yeah, I I I'd have to double check that, but I believe that was in my my foster care days when I worked in a foster care agency. and I'm gonna go to spur because I haven't seen it and again that might have been maybe two thousand eleven, twelve, thirteen possibly several years ago, decade over a decade ago. but I would say I think that was when I was transporting a a young

Girl who was in foster care and the tornadoes hit Oklahoma and we had to drive through more Oklahoma and the devastation that occurred. And this young lady who had a terrible upbringing, who was obviously in the foster care system in Oklahoma, was looking at the devastation from the tornado, and she said,

That's terrible. Where are all those people going to live? Because you know, we drove by the destruction of all these homes and businesses that are completely flattened by the tornado. And and it it it really got to me because this is a child who did not have a home of herself. She was in the foster care system. My agency was placing her with temporary foster parents. and she was so concerned about these other people and families who didn't have a home physically per se, but she she

was in the same boat and so it was kind of a a a moment there to consider those types of things that that there are children in our state that experience that every single day.

Anthony Codispoti (46:19)

That's touching. Your team right now, Grant, is relatively small. you got your brother Garrett, Kyla, Robbie are all working there. When you're building a team of that size, every single hire that you make really impacts the culture. What is it that you're looking for in someone before you bring them into Bard?

Grant Johnson (46:41)

Yeah, absolutely. We we have two other team members that aren't on the website as of right now. We have a virtual assistant who is phenomenal, who helps us with some back end work and service things. and then we have a brand new executive assistant who just joined us a couple weeks ago. but

Yeah, culture, culture is everything. and and one of the things I learned is I kind of used to hire like everybody else and hire as needed, and see fit fit somebody who seemed okay, didn't have enough problems and see if they stuck around. But I learned in any industry and especially in insurance, there's a lot going on. You have to find the right person, you have to find the right personality. and not only to do the job and do it well, but to

Be a good teammate. And so our hiring process is pretty stout, I would say. My wife had years experience as a recruiter. So she really helped us develop a process and program of recruiting talent. And then we utilize some special recruitment CRM that helps us with the process of those things. But yeah, we we have

hire really slow and like you know I don't know who coined this term but we hire slow and we we fire fast and thankfully you haven't had to fire a lot of people in the seven years but but hiring is one of those things that

will make or break our agency. finding the the the y they're representing our our agency, they're representing our business, they're representing each other. And so we do a lot of training, a lot of assessments. We'll do three different assessments in the training process where people are required to take tests and assess different things. and and then they have to do fill out some other

questionnaires and open-ended questionnaires to really kind of gather who they are and how they think. And then obviously looking at experience and and other things like that. So we're looking when we hire, we're looking for the right personality fit. We're looking for the right skills and experience. But we are really looking for some key details of of can they do this job? Can they do it well and can they work with everyone here?

And so figuring all that is is is the the hard part.

Anthony Codispoti (49:24)

Yeah,

strikes me that I would not have expected this kind of in-depth, detailed process from a group you're small. But I guess that speaks to the value that your wife is bringing to the table. She's done this, you know, at a much bigger scale. And so she's like, Nope, here's the right infrastructure that you would find at a much bigger company. Gratis. There you go. You guys get the benefit from that.

Grant Johnson (49:46)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

And having her assist with that and help was was obviously tremendous, but but it's also kind of just a part of of me and my personality. I I'm gonna

gonna a hundred percent at everything and and it's kind of an obsession too, you know, it's kind of a a a a part of I don't technically have O C D but everybody jokes about having a form of O C D in something, but but a lot of that comes from experience too. you know we when

When we started Varde, we grew really quickly. and we we had a team of about nine people at one point in time. And I had a business partner at the time and we split and and once we split I had to kind of start over and it was really, really rough patch. I learned a lot of hard lessons. I'm glad I learned them, I'm glad I went through them. But one of the things I learned was really to

be very slow on who you hire and who you bring on and who represents your company. and so from that experience and from that, you know, as jokingly PTSD,

You know, made me be much slower on on that process and more thoughtful. And thankfully my my wife had the experience and was able to assist with with those things and really bulk that up for us. And and I will say this too. I mean, yeah, we're we're we're small agency. there's six of us at the moment, but man

We have so much fun. Everybody works hard. Everybody is so skillful and tactical, capable at what they're doing. but we have so much fun together and we're a great team. And and so one of my fears, if I'm honest, of of growing, growing too fast or growing too much is hiring more people and not finding not having the right people in because it's so much fun to work with people that you enjoy, who are doing great work, that you trust and it's it's

Mm very meaningful.

Anthony Codispoti (51:52)

Grant,

are you comfortable saying more about the failed business partnership and why that led to you having to start over?

Grant Johnson (51:59)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. lot a lot of wrapped up in there. but it was just one of those things when I was looking to start the the company, the agency myself. there's another person that I knew in the insurance world and and we thought we'd be a great team. and you know it's it's funny, you you go into things and I had several different people in different

Parts of my life who were like, hey, consider business partners are rough. And you know, even had my attorney friend say, you know, partnerships are really rough. You gotta be really careful and things. And and I'm always such an optimist and a rose-colored glass, have you know, glass always full kind of person, and thinking it was gonna be great and we we had enough wrapped up, but business is hard. a new business is hard. We went through a lot of things, you know, we started the technically started the

Agency in 2019, and then the next year, what happens? COVID happens. at the same time, a lot of other changes happen. I had my first child. my wife and I, a year and a half later, we all welcome our second child, and so lots of life changes, lots of things going on. And and so splitting, we decided to split and you know, you just learn these big lessons, and

We were 50-50 partners and I had thought things were protected and things would go the way that were obvious. and and they didn't. And it was really hard, really rough. I mean, here I am i technically ending the world of COVID as we knew it. and

two young children and I came with you know a point of I've got to start all over again. Is it worth it? Is it worth doing this? I was able to carry over a couple of clients and things and and have a small b book of business to start. but you know you're faced with that thing, is it worth it? Is it is it am I gonna be good enough? Can I do this? and it was a huge gut check. But that's looking on the other side of it now, over three years later, I'm so glad I went through it.

because it really made me much stronger. It made me realize again those kind of powers or strengths that I that I have or that I I can possess. Much like thinking back when I was starting out in the the therapy world, I just didn't think I had what it takes to fight through it and figure it out. But now going through something like that, I realized man, I can do anything. You know, I I'm just gonna fight through it and not give up. And I'm glad I

did that because you know three years removed now, growing an agency, great great clients, great team, almost exactly where I'd want to be envisioned three years ago and wouldn't have it any other way.

Anthony Codispoti (54:53)

So what can you share with the audience lessons learned from that experience? If you had it to do over again, things that you would have done differently in terms of structuring the partnership or the agreement, what what did you learn?

Grant Johnson (55:06)

Yeah, operating agreements should be a thousand pages long.

you know, I don't know if it's other states, but Oklahoma, our operating agreement I thought was pretty sound pat and and set and understood. But you know, things change, roles change, especially within two business partners. and so it's really important to write up a really good one and then to adjust that as needed. the the fact of the matter is I I did a lot of the back end work, I did a lot of the business work. the business partner I had was writing majority of business.

business

doing a lot of that. And so when it came down to brass taxes, 50-50 owners,

They were able to fight that they were doing more business than I was and and that was kind of an upper hand for them. which makes sense, I guess. It's not fun, but it was hard to put on paper and you know, legally of well, this is all I did. I was doing recruitment, I was doing marketing, I was doing managing, I was doing all these other things when you could look at two books of businesses and compare. so definitely operate an agreement, write a really good one, have multiple attorneys look at it if you need to. and

and then revisit it often. And then within partnerships, have the best communication you can and and know your roles, stick to them and and make sure that you know you're you're doing your side of the bargain that is on the operating agreement. I'd say as a caveat or precursor

Like I was told by many people, be very careful who you go into business with and who you choose. not saying that everybody's going to be a a a bad actor or something, but it's just it's it's some it's a big deal. It's two livelihoods being meshed together. and and so you really have to find somebody that you know enough and that you trust enough, or you you doctor it up with enough attorney legal jargon and things to protect yourself. So

Yeah, very, very careful on on business partnerships.

Anthony Codispoti (57:14)

So talk

to me about the part where, okay, you're going through this painful breakup, you're starting on all over again on your own. You bring in a couple of clients with you, which helps, but really it's it's starting over and you're doubting yourself. Even though you've seen what you can do, you've demonstrated to yourself and to others in the past that you have what it takes, there is still this underlying doubt. Talk to me about where that comes from and how you worked through it.

Grant Johnson (57:44)

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, you're you're when I'm splitting up and literally starting over and and and things, it's not the way that I anticipated. It's not exactly what I wanted. And so there's friction there. And and for me personally, you know, I would go to you know, depressive thoughts or really you know dark thoughts of like, man.

I'm not good enough or I I wasn't good enough or man, I'm I'm just not a good business person or I shouldn't have done this. And you know, you think all think all those things through in a very high emotional state. and what I had to learn and fight was you know, no, it just it just didn't work out. It wasn't the right fit for for either party. And and I

had to really do more work on myself than than anticipated. And the fact of my my mental toughness, my mental capacity. Of course, you're at that moment I'm fighting a lot of emotional things. Because here I am, husband, very young new father.

you know, the weight of the world on me and by the way, your your business failed, that's not working out. does that mean I'm a failure? You know, and I had to face that for quite a while. And so it was a a slower process than I'd like it to be, but finally realizing, okay, there's a purpose for this, there's a reason why it happened,

These are the qualities of of the good in this situation. These are the qualities of of who I am. And in a sense it was kind of a rediscovering myself. I think people use that all the time and it's a little cliche. but it's the best way I can explain it, you know. I think I I knew myself, I thought I knew who I was. but when you're completely stripped of all of that at the moment and you're faced with you know

Are you good enough? Are you gonna be able to do this by yourself in these terms? Because at the same time, all that happened, the insurance industry was crashing, rates were going insane, companies were stopped writing, so it was it was just the perfect storm, and so it was really forced me to face the fact of like who I am, who I wanted to be, and you know.

how was gonna do that, whether I was gonna change or find things within myself of being, hey, I've got you you you've got grit, you can do this. You you're a person of integrity. you're able to to overcome this and connect with people and and really help people and this is what you need to be doing and just do it, you know.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:35)

And in my experience, like so many other areas of life, success cures ills, right? Like it once you start to get some traction, like that's

Grant Johnson (1:00:44)

Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:45)

the demonstrable reproof to yourself that not only

Grant Johnson (1:00:48)

Yes.

Anthony Codispoti (1:00:48)

have I done this before, but I'm actively doing it again now. All right. Now I feel better about myself. So

Grant Johnson (1:00:52)

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and

I'd say that was part of the struggle is you know, coming from where I came, the experience I had, the connections I had were all great, but it was the problem of being in an industry that had such problems at the time too. So that's why I was saying it was a perfect storm because you know, before I would have a a very high closing ratio in in in the

Two thousand, two thousand nineteen, two thousand twenty, I literally myself had an eighty-seven percent closing ratio of insurance. So out of ten people that came to me, I was able to help eight to nine of them secure or switch insurance or whatever else. Now going into the insurance world from 23, 24, during the business breakup, it dropped to about 45 percent. And so it's

half it it was you know it doesn't seem like a lot even though it's you it's a ha half the

Anthony Codispoti (1:01:47)

Huge.

Grant Johnson (1:01:48)

number but in my world helping eight to nine people and then only helping three, four or five people at a time out of ten was was a shock too. So it was so much more of emotional shock and a gut check and a grit check if you will of of saying, Okay, how are we gonna do this? And so to your point, yes, success would have been great, but I didn't have

The

time the the capabilities or the control over a lot of that success. I was operating on one one frame of an industry that had changed drastically and so I was had to learn how to redo that and fix things. And we did that by diversifying by doing more commercial work because it was really the personal lines that was really suffering in in the insurance world. And so those things helped us and so again you you kind of again figure out what how do we do this how

How do make this work? What do we need to do today? What do we need to do tomorrow? What do we need stop doing and and and pivot and work from?

Anthony Codispoti (1:02:54)

And the challenges that you were having on the personal side, is that just because of what you were describing that was going on in Oklahoma at the time, like the the tornadoes and just the masters? Yep, okay.

Grant Johnson (1:03:02)

Absolutely yeah. Yeah. We had

we had more I mean it was n it was nationwide. if you look at the entrance

Natural insurance information from every insurance carrier that does home and auto insurance specifically, you know, their loss ratios were atrocious. for every dollar that they made, they were losing a dollar or two, you know. and people thought, they're billion-dollar companies, they're doing you know, they're they're okay. But in in the industry or lines of insurance of home insurance or auto insurance, it was not that way. we had more more auto accidents occurring. it was a wild time.

In

auto insurance because you had during COVID, right? You had the one of the lowest numbers in history of auto accidents because nobody was driving, not many people on the roads, because they were you know in their homes, not out and about. And and then after COVID, about 21-22, you saw a massive influx of crazy numbers of severe accidents, death by accidents, number of accidents, all these things just started increasing. Well

insurance is completely tied into that, right? You're fixing vehicles, you're replacing vehicles. they're they're involved in in that and it's definitely correlated. So that's one thing. And then during those times too obviously inflation hit hard and during you know pandemic after pandemic and inflation hit the insurance industry because you're rebuilding or repairing a a vehicle or replacing a vehicle I should say it was you know it changed the numbers it changed

The amounts. Same thing on home insurance. you're repairing or replacing, rebuilding a home. the cost of wood, the cost of metal all spiked up, and so insurance companies were scrambling to do that. You got to think home insurance, for instance, is a year contract, they're not allowed to change the rates within a year. So they had an entire year of watching the rates of all of this influx of woods going up and metals going up and things, and we don't

know if it's going to continue to go up. So they had to alter and make some changes and start increasing rates drastically. You know, and years prior we would see renewal rates up to 3% and cross to 4% and 8%. But during those times of the high pandemic times and the increase of insurance, we were seeing in Oklahoma insurance companies increasing 50 to 100%.

rates

year over year. and so it was just a shock to the industry, shock to shock to clients, shock to agents, and we're right in the middle of it.

Anthony Codispoti (1:05:48)

painful. Grant, as you think about the work that you're doing now, what is it that you most want to be remembered for?

Grant Johnson (1:05:57)

i w in the realm of insurance, a trusted resource of anything. If it's insurance, that's great. I obviously would love to be that, but I want to be a trusted resource, somebody who anybody can go to. if I can't help you, I'd find somebody who can. but

in in in life, in general, I I wanna be remembered as an excellent husband and father. I think those are the two most important things to me in my life and I strive to do that every single day.

Anthony Codispoti (1:06:30)

I love that. Grant, I just have one more question for you today, but before I ask it, I want to do three quick things for the audience. First of all, if you want to get in touch with Grant Johnson and learn more about what they're doing at Varday Insurance, their website, we mentioned it before, vardeinsurance.com. And Varde is spelled V-A-R-D-E. Vardeinsurance.com. It'll be in the show notes in case you missed it. Also, if you're enjoying the show, please take a moment to subscribe wherever you're listening.

It also sends a signal that helps others discover our podcast. So thanks for taking a quick moment to do that right now. And insurance agents, one more reminder: our program from Bain Capital Insurance gives your clients, employees, real access to doctors, therapists, and prescriptions, no co-pays, no deductibles. And here's why it matters to you, regardless of your lines. This product grows the company's bottom line instead of costing them. So that's real cash they can put right back into the coverage you're already recommending.

Backed by Bain Capital Insurance, learn more about how this helps you and your clients at the same time. Addbackbenefits.com. So, Grant, last question for you. A year from now, what is one very specific thing that you hope to be celebrating?

Grant Johnson (1:07:46)

There's a lot of things I'd like to be celebrating. The one specific is to be able have look back and seeing that we have hit our goals and that we've helped more people than we did this this past year. diversifying within

commercial world. I'd love to say in a year, man, we we look how many more people we are able to help and reach who own businesses or own homes and vehicles and need secure and life insurance.

Anthony Codispoti (1:08:18)

I love it. Grant Johnson from Varde Insurance, I want to be the first to thank you for sharing both your time and your story with us today. Thank you for being here.

Grant Johnson (1:08:27)

Thanks. Thanks for having me. It was a pleasure.

Anthony Codispoti (1:08:29)

Folks, that's a wrap on another episode of the Inspired Stories Podcast. Thanks for learning with us. And if one thing stood out, put that into action today.

Connect with Grant Johnson:

Website:  Värdeinsurance.com